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re: Russia to double number of warheads on new ICBMs
Posted on 4/1/16 at 11:50 am to DarthRebel
Posted on 4/1/16 at 11:50 am to DarthRebel
quote:
Does this really matter though. MAD is still basically in place.
Does not matter how many they have, as long as we have the capability to detect launch.
Hopefully not. But the situation in Europe is getting worrisome. You've got Russia headed by a megalomaniac with delusions of returning Russia to its Soviet era glory. And he's spent the last several years building their military back up to real world power levels. Meanwhile NATO is a shell of its former self. Europe is virtually undefended and disarmed. And the real power in NATO, namely the US, has cut the shite out of its own military, has stretched whats left of its military thin by getting tied up in the Middle East. And on top of that we're like $20,trillion in debt. Hell, we couldn't afford another big war.
The danger in all this is that all these things, when looked at together, makes a Russian push into Europe look at least plausible from their perspective. And when war looks plausible to your enemy, that's when wars start. I'm not saying it's about to kick off. But there is danger because from the Russians point of view, it looks like it could possibly be winnable.
3
Posted on 4/1/16 at 11:52 am to wickowick
quote:
quote:
Does this really matter though. MAD is still basically in place.
quote:
Is it?
Well, we are still here, aren't we?
Posted on 4/1/16 at 11:54 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
And on top of that we're like $20,trillion in debt. Hell, we couldn't afford another big war.
Lulz. Yea we could.
Let Russia do what it wants. They can have Eastern Europe.
And if Western Europe wants to defend itself then those countries need to get off their asses.
I'm tired of America being the global police force. frick it. Let the middle east and Russia and Europe and Asia deal with their own shite. We have enough to worry about over here.
This post was edited on 4/1/16 at 11:56 am
Posted on 4/1/16 at 11:54 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
But there is danger because from the Russians point of view, it looks like it could possibly be winnable.
Russia has terrible power projection. No full-fledged war would be very successful for them in their current state. They need aircraft carriers. Not ICBMs, which start a game that no one can win.
They can stomp around shitty former satellites like the Ukraine. They can attempt to roll tanks across eastern Europe, but they would not last long- even if the initial rush made into Germany.
Posted on 4/1/16 at 11:56 am to Tiguar
quote:
Russia has terrible power projection. No full-fledged war would be very successful for them in their current state. They need aircraft carriers. Not ICBMs, which start a game that no one can win.
They can stomp around shitty former satellites like the Ukraine. They can attempt to roll tanks across eastern Europe, but they would not last long- even if the initial rush made into Germany.
There are some who just refuse to believe this.
Posted on 4/1/16 at 11:56 am to Darth_Vader
But you can rely on Pres OBlunder...
Posted on 4/1/16 at 11:56 am to GetCocky11
quote:
Russia to double number of warheads on new ICBMs by GetCocky11
quote:
quote:
Does this really matter though. MAD is still basically in place.
quote:
Is it?
Well, we are still here, aren't we?
Well a cornerstone of MAD is for there to be a "balance of terror" between the two sides. That balance looks to be going in the wrong direction....
quote:
The 2010 treaty requires the United States and Russia to reduce deployed warheads to 1,550 warheads by February 2018. The United States has cut its warhead stockpiles significantly in recent years. Moscow, however, has increased its numbers of deployed warheads and new weapons. The State Department revealed in January that Russia currently has exceeded the New START warhead limit by 98 warheads, deploying a total number of 1,648 warheads. The U.S. level currently is below the treaty level at 1,538 warheads
Posted on 4/1/16 at 11:57 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
Well a cornerstone of MAD is for there to be a "balance of terror" between the two sides. That balance looks to be going in the wrong direction....
The balance is just fine.
It takes a lot less than 1,000 nuclear warheads to destroy each other.
Posted on 4/1/16 at 11:58 am to Tiguar
quote:
Russia has terrible power projection. No full-fledged war would be very successful for them in their current state. They need aircraft carriers. Not ICBMs, which start a game that no one can win.
Russia has its eyes on reclaiming Eastern Europe. In this regard aircraft carriers would be of little to no use.
ETA: Downvote it all you want. But anyone who knows shite about this subject knows aircraft carriers would be of little to no use in a war fought in Eastern Europe.
This post was edited on 4/1/16 at 12:02 pm
Posted on 4/1/16 at 12:00 pm to Tiguar
quote:
They can stomp around shitty former satellites like the Ukraine. They can attempt to roll tanks across eastern Europe, but they would not last long- even if the initial rush made into Germany
Exactly what would stop them?
Posted on 4/1/16 at 12:00 pm to Breesus
quote:
This is exactly why we need Trump
When I think of the men I'd want making strategic military decisions and policy regarding Russia, Trump doesn't come close. The guy gets his feelings hurt and seems all too eager to send 18-24 year olds to die in order to one up someone.
Posted on 4/1/16 at 12:02 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
Exactly what would stop them?
Nothing would stop the initial rush, but when you have USN aircraft carriers running sorties on your supply lines into an offensive front, you have a little bit of trouble holding a position. Supported by Raptors and other high-profile air superiority planes, multiple carrier strike groups would make life difficult for a real military trying to do real military things.
Posted on 4/1/16 at 12:03 pm to Breesus
quote:
And if Western Europe wants to defend itself then those countries need to get off their asses.
I'm tired of America being the global police force. frick it. Let the middle east and Russia and Europe and Asia deal with their own shite. We have enough to worry about over here
I agree 100%. We've carried the burden of defending Europe since WWII. It's past time they take care of themselves. Sadly though, we both know that will never happen.
Posted on 4/1/16 at 12:04 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
Well a cornerstone of MAD is for there to be a "balance of terror" between the two sides. That balance looks to be going in the wrong direction....
Ehh, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but whether you have 1,538 warheads or 1,648 warheads seems to be insignificant if they're all nuclear weapons. I have a hard time envisioning a situation where the first 1,538 warheads didn't do the job.
Posted on 4/1/16 at 12:05 pm to JBeam
LOL is that Merkel in that .gif?
Posted on 4/1/16 at 12:09 pm to Tiguar
quote:
Nothing would stop the initial rush, but when you have USN aircraft carriers running sorties on your supply lines into an offensive front, you have a little bit of trouble holding a position. Supported by Raptors and other high-profile air superiority planes, multiple carrier strike groups would make life difficult for a real military trying to do real military things
There is one big problem here. Those supply lines would run from Russia through eastern and Central Europe. For our carriers to be effective, they'd have to get close enough, at least deploying to the North Sea, to be vulnerable to land based anti-shipping middles. And on top of that, the Russians have a huge and very modern mobile SAM system they'd deploy to defend their air space.
But all that is a moot point anyway. Firstly, we'd never risk out carriers by putting them close enough to Eastern Europe for them to be of any use there anyway. If war did come to Europe, our carriers would be out in the Atlantic with their hands full protecting the convoys of ships desperately trying to get supplies and reinforcements to Europe.
Posted on 4/1/16 at 12:15 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
He's a fan of Russia. I'm not. I'm an old Cold War era vet who spent the late 80s in Geemany just waiting on those frickers to get a hair up their arse.
Darth we just basically need to start a monthly "Discuss Red Storm Rising" thread. The last one on here took up the better part of my workday
Posted on 4/1/16 at 12:15 pm to soccerfüt
quote:
Ze FOURTH Verld Vhar vill be fought wid dee sticks and dee stones.
I have used that quote since high school, minus the german accent. But the accent adds to it
Posted on 4/1/16 at 12:20 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
Russia to double number of warheads on new ICBMs
Worry not, Obama will draw a double-red line and everything will be OK.
Posted on 4/1/16 at 12:23 pm to elprez00
quote:
Darth we just basically need to start a monthly "Discuss Red Storm Rising" thread. The last one on here took up the better part of my workday
Loved that book. I got it right before I shipped out to Germany in 88 and read it on the trip over.
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