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Started By
Message
re: Richmond Lee Monument going down
Posted on 6/3/20 at 8:42 pm to Lsupimp
Posted on 6/3/20 at 8:42 pm to Lsupimp
quote:
Or conversely, as I view it, they were there to honor the fact that we fought an unbelievably horrible Civil War and were re-dedicated to our Union by being respectful of our differences and commemorating our past. I think it was a very WISE olive branch extended by Republican yankees to vanquished Democrat rebels. An understanding of human nature, an acknowledgement that neither side had a monopoly on personal virtue or personal honor. Maturity vs Infantilism.
That's an incredibly optimistic and wholly incomplete perspective on the purpose of Confederate monuments, which completely ignores the manner in which Reconstruction ended and the Jim Crow era, along with current attitudes. And to mention "maturity vs Infantilism"? Hilarious. The south lost, then proceeded to throw a massive hissy fit in the form of Jim Crow. Seriously, they took the loss out on black people for the next hundred years! Completely pathetic and inexcusable.
Second, why can't white southerners acknowledge that symbols mean different things to different people? What you see as a sign of reconciliation is correctly viewed by another citizen as a sign of oppression. I mean, the Lee statue is a tribute to the leader of the army that fought to keep them enslaved - there is no escaping that.
Every time a statute comes down people who claim not to care or who "love history" sure seem to have pretty strong opinions.
Removing monuments is NOT the same as erasing history - they never should have been erected in the first place. It's not a difficult or even controversial stance, but deep down people know they're wrong, and that's why the "history" argument even exists.
2
Posted on 6/3/20 at 8:44 pm to IonaTiger
quote:
You may be right. But who should get to make that decision?
I've always advocated it should be up to locals. If it's a public statue, the local public's will should prevail.
If another city wants it, let them have it. Seriously.
Posted on 6/3/20 at 8:45 pm to red sox fan 13
New Orleans said it fixed all their problems.
Comment from a friend.
Comment from a friend.
Posted on 6/3/20 at 8:46 pm to Buryl
quote:
Second, why can't white southerners acknowledge that symbols mean different things to different people? What you see as a sign of reconciliation is correctly viewed by another citizen as a sign of oppression
And just as many people "correctly" see these monuments as symbols of sacrifice. There is no correct interpretation here. Your desire to project a subjective viewpoint as a universal objective fact reveals you as nothing more than a totalitarian hiding behind identitarian semantics.
Posted on 6/3/20 at 8:59 pm to SCLibertarian
quote:
And just as many people "correctly" see these monuments as symbols of sacrifice. There is no correct interpretation here. Your desire to project a subjective viewpoint as a universal objective fact reveals you as nothing more than a totalitarian hiding behind identitarian semantics.
Lol. Tell me, how am I a totalitarian?
Also, the fact that some people view them as a symbol of sacrifice doesn't mean that there is no "correct" interpretation. Obviously white people don't view them as a symbol of oppression, they were the oppressors!
Why don't you address the other parts of my statement - like how the monuments were intended to further a certain power structure in the south.
Posted on 6/3/20 at 9:15 pm to Buryl
quote:
Also, the fact that some people view them as a symbol of sacrifice doesn't mean that there is no "correct" interpretation.
So because some people view them as symbols of oppression, that means they're symbols of oppression. But when others view the same symbols in a different manner, they're not correct, because their interpretation differs from yours. And because that interpretation isn't yours, the symbol isn't worthy of display. That's precisely a totalitarian mindset.
quote:
Why don't you address the other parts of my statement - like how the monuments were intended to further a certain power structure in the south.
The idea that statues, in and of themselves, further a power structure is laughable. Human beings, the governments they create and the laws they pass determine the power structure of a society. And anyone steeped in Southern history knows that most Confederate statues were funded and established by women (Daughters of the Confederacy) in the South, at a time when they couldn't even vote.
This post was edited on 6/3/20 at 9:16 pm
Posted on 6/3/20 at 9:34 pm to red sox fan 13
No different than burning books.
Man this country has become a fricked up mess.
Man this country has become a fricked up mess.
Posted on 6/3/20 at 9:36 pm to SoloTiger
quote:
No different than burning books.
It is actually very different.
Posted on 6/3/20 at 9:38 pm to Tonio
Wait......they were Kangs or some shite like that. I don’t know I wasn’t paying attention.
Posted on 6/3/20 at 9:40 pm to GetCocky11
quote:
It is actually very different.
If one believes that a statue or monument should be taken down or removed because it may offend someone, is it too far of a stretch to think those people won't attempt to do the exact same thing with works of art and literature? The social justice crowd are secular Puritans. They do not tolerate views divergent from their own. They're not much different, if at all, from the Westboro Baptist folks, except their God is identity politics.
Posted on 6/3/20 at 9:43 pm to SCLibertarian
quote:
is it too far of a stretch to think those people won't attempt to do the exact same thing with works of art and literature?
Yeah, it probably is. I mean, nobody reads anymore.
Posted on 6/3/20 at 9:46 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
It's already been proposed to essentially blast that monument off the face of the mountain
It needs to be.
Do you know the history of that mountain and carving?
It needs to be treated the same as Auschwitz and Dachau.
A grim reminder.
This post was edited on 6/3/20 at 9:49 pm
Posted on 6/3/20 at 9:47 pm to magildachunks
The only things I know about Stone Mountain I learned from 30 Rock
Posted on 6/3/20 at 9:50 pm to red sox fan 13
Destruction has helped racism so far.
Posted on 6/3/20 at 9:51 pm to AU86
quote:
Lee is among the five greatest men this country has ever produced.
Five greater off the top of my half-drunk head:
1. George Washington
2. Benjamin Franklin
3. Thomas Paine
4. U. S. Grant
5. Teddy Roosevelt
Posted on 6/3/20 at 9:52 pm to magildachunks
Drew Brees is up there
Posted on 6/3/20 at 9:56 pm to SoloTiger
quote:
No different than burning books.
Are you serious?
Posted on 6/3/20 at 9:56 pm to Sun God
quote:
The only things I know about Stone Mountain I learned from 30 Rock
And that is?
Posted on 6/3/20 at 9:57 pm to magildachunks
Posted on 6/3/20 at 9:58 pm to SCLibertarian
quote:
one believes that a statue or monument should be taken down or removed because it may offend someone, is it too far of a stretch to think those people won't attempt to do the exact same thing with works of art and literature?
Jesus... fricking...Christ.
You really are serious?
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