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re: Question for OT Medical Experts regarding brain tumors
Posted on 3/9/16 at 2:49 pm to Hog on the Hill
Posted on 3/9/16 at 2:49 pm to Hog on the Hill
quote:
Damn that's very large. I wish the best of luck to the patient.
It sounds like if the patient was in surgery, they probably took a biopsy at the beginning of the surgery and got the pathology report, which is how they found out it was grade 2. That makes sense. Determining grade during surgery is important because if it's higher grade, they'll usually try to be more aggressive in taking out more tissue to ensure they get everything. Since it was grade 2, the tumor was slower growing and the cells were closer to being normal. There's a good chance it's benign.
If they were able to get everything, then the prognosis could be good. It depends on the pathology, age of the patient, what kinds of problems he/she was experiencing (if there was already tissue damage to healthy structures then that would make the prognosis worse), and the specific outcome of the surgery (if they damaged any structures during the surgery, then naturally the prognosis could be worse).
Grade 2 is good news. I'll say that.
edit: but I want to put a caveat in here that I'm not involved in surgery, so take this with a grain of salt. Maybe someone involved in CNS surgery can chime in
Thanks for the info. From what I was told on the phone, and again this is second hand info, the doctor said he does not think it could be cancerous because due to the size and rate of growth had it been cancer he'd already be dead. Now the guy who told me this has a tendency to exaggerate things so I have no idea if this is what the doctor actually said.
1
Posted on 3/9/16 at 2:54 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:My understanding is that it's easier for benign tumors to go undetected because they grow so slowly and the brain can adjust to its presence as the tumor grows. A quickly growing cancerous tumor tends to cause symptoms earlier, before it gets really big, because the brain doesn't have the same amount of time to adjust.
Thanks for the info. From what I was told on the phone, and again this is second hand info, the doctor said he does not think it could be cancerous because due to the size and rate of growth had it been cancer he'd already be dead. Now the guy who told me this has a tendency to exaggerate things so I have no idea if this is what the doctor actually said.
Posted on 3/9/16 at 3:01 pm to Darth_Vader
My grandmother had surgery for a brain tumor. She was awake within an hour afterward and was home after a few days. No residual effects except it affected her speech somewhat. Unfortunately, they weren't able to get it all and she didn't live too long after that. Best wishes to your friend.
Posted on 3/9/16 at 3:07 pm to Hog on the Hill
quote:
edit: but I want to put a caveat in here that I'm not involved in surgery, so take this with a grain of salt. Maybe someone involved in CNS surgery can chime in
No offense, but you've said a lot of wrong things in here.
Darth hasn't given enough info to really answer any of his questions.
Posted on 3/9/16 at 3:08 pm to Hog on the Hill
Couple things:
1. Hog, the tumor may have arisen from bone or dura, and therefore been outside the actual brain tissue, and therefore much much easier to remove (and usually not taking as much healthy brain)
2. Don't know exactly what they mean by grade. Could be stage or tumor grade. Stage 2 would mean they looked at the tumor grade as well as spread to other organs or lymph nodes and there isn't spread (very good thing). Tumor grade can be just based on size, but you usually need a tissue diagnosis to know the type of tumor and grading system to use. For instance, breast cancer T staging (tumor grade) is all based on size of the tumor and if it invades surrounding structures. Colon cancer is the same.
3. Fast growth could be good or bad. Most malignant tumors grow slowly. But there are ones that grow quickly that can be malignant. In the brain, even a fast growing tumor can be a big problem. Examples are sarcoma (fast growing and can be benign, but very hard to get rid of) or glioblastoma (very very malignant brain tumor that can grow quickly. Very hard to treat, surgery is the only option, and usually come back.
4. Golf ball size is big, but baseball size in the brain should have caused some major symptoms
1. Hog, the tumor may have arisen from bone or dura, and therefore been outside the actual brain tissue, and therefore much much easier to remove (and usually not taking as much healthy brain)
2. Don't know exactly what they mean by grade. Could be stage or tumor grade. Stage 2 would mean they looked at the tumor grade as well as spread to other organs or lymph nodes and there isn't spread (very good thing). Tumor grade can be just based on size, but you usually need a tissue diagnosis to know the type of tumor and grading system to use. For instance, breast cancer T staging (tumor grade) is all based on size of the tumor and if it invades surrounding structures. Colon cancer is the same.
3. Fast growth could be good or bad. Most malignant tumors grow slowly. But there are ones that grow quickly that can be malignant. In the brain, even a fast growing tumor can be a big problem. Examples are sarcoma (fast growing and can be benign, but very hard to get rid of) or glioblastoma (very very malignant brain tumor that can grow quickly. Very hard to treat, surgery is the only option, and usually come back.
4. Golf ball size is big, but baseball size in the brain should have caused some major symptoms
Posted on 3/9/16 at 3:08 pm to Parallax
quote:No offense taken, please elaborate if you feel like it
No offense, but you've said a lot of wrong things in here.
Darth hasn't given enough info to really answer any of his questions.
Posted on 3/9/16 at 3:09 pm to Hog on the Hill
quote:
How did they grade the tumor if they haven't biopsied it? That doesn't make sense. Tumor grade is determined by a pathologist and that requires a tissue sample.
You can grade a tumor via imaging. The T-grading is size dependent and with no malignancy on PET the N will be 0.
So it's normal to hear a non-biopsied tongue/brain/larynx graded T1N0, T2N0, T3N1, etc. just based on imaging visualization. If there are mets on imaging, obviously surgery becomes much more important.
At some point with any brain tumor, the size can effect function whether malignant or not, so it becomes logical to just remove it. But if it's small, with no mets on imaging, it can be observed. I've had a 6mm "brain tumor" since I was a teenager, but luckily it's never grown.
This post was edited on 3/9/16 at 3:11 pm
Posted on 3/9/16 at 3:14 pm to pngtiger
quote:Brain tumor staging and grading are basically the same thing. It's based on the histology and pathology.
Couple things:
1. Hog, the tumor may have arisen from bone or dura, and therefore been outside the actual brain tissue, and therefore much much easier to remove (and usually not taking as much healthy brain)
2. Don't know exactly what they mean by grade. Could be stage or tumor grade. Stage 2 would mean they looked at the tumor grade as well as spread to other organs or lymph nodes and there isn't spread (very good thing).
Posted on 3/9/16 at 3:15 pm to pngtiger
Forgot to add, 95% of people are left brain dominant. That means speech shouldn't be affected on the right side. They may have motor problems on their left side depending on where in the parietal lobe it was located (strong possibility I would say)
As to recovery and long term outlook, can't answer that without knowing the type of tumor and how much they had to resect
As to recovery and long term outlook, can't answer that without knowing the type of tumor and how much they had to resect
Posted on 3/9/16 at 3:16 pm to MSMHater
quote:That's staging, not grading. Two different things.
You can grade a tumor via imaging. The T-grading is size dependent and with no malignancy on PET the N will be 0.
So it's normal to hear a non-biopsied tongue/brain/larynx graded T1N0, T2N0, T3N1, etc. just based on imaging visualization. If there are mets on imaging, obviously surgery becomes much more important.
At some point with any brain tumor, the size can effect function whether malignant or not, so it becomes logical to just remove it. But if it's small, with no mets on imaging, it can be observed. I've had a 6mm "brain tumor" since I was a teenager, but luckily it's never grown.
You cannot grade a tumor without examining the tissue under microscope.
Posted on 3/9/16 at 3:17 pm to pngtiger
quote:
4. Golf ball size is big, but baseball size in the brain should have caused some major symptoms
That's how they found it. Weekend before last he was complaining of dizziness or vertigo. Then on Monday he could not lift his left leg. That's when his wife took him to the ER and after some tests and an MRI they found the tumor. The next day was when they first mentioned it being golf ball sized. Today after surgery was the first I heard if it being baseball sized.
Posted on 3/9/16 at 3:23 pm to Hog on the Hill
Having troubling pasting on my phone, but as to your last post Hog, agree staging vs grade of tumor. I don't know if they said grade meaning grade (which is done pathologically), or stage. Stage makes a lot more sense based on what darth has said. Sometimes the doc says grade because that's what people understand, and sometimes people mishear and think they said grade.
Posted on 3/9/16 at 3:25 pm to Hog on the Hill
quote:
That's staging, not grading. Two different things.
Fair enough. But think about the OP and tell me which do you think he was referring to.
Do you think the patient and OP would understand that distinction?
Posted on 3/9/16 at 3:27 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
Darth_Vader
My best to your friend for a full and speedy recovery. Sorry I can't add anything else.
Posted on 3/9/16 at 3:28 pm to Darth_Vader
Man, that's terrible! And if true that's not fast growth, that's an explosive growth. Really sucks, even if benign.
Had 2 good friends from high school diagnosed with bad brain tumors right after high school. Both were supposed to be inoperable. One died just recently after having treatment but it recurred (16 years later), and the other is still going strong. In fact he went to work for md Anderson after his treatments
Oh, btw, love your history threads. Every day I look for one and to see what you say. Has spurned a lot of further reading about those subjects.
Had 2 good friends from high school diagnosed with bad brain tumors right after high school. Both were supposed to be inoperable. One died just recently after having treatment but it recurred (16 years later), and the other is still going strong. In fact he went to work for md Anderson after his treatments
Oh, btw, love your history threads. Every day I look for one and to see what you say. Has spurned a lot of further reading about those subjects.
Posted on 3/9/16 at 3:30 pm to MSMHater
Much more to the point than what I said
Posted on 3/9/16 at 3:33 pm to MSMHater
quote:Again, for brain tumors, stage/grade are essentially the same thing. "stage" is often not even used when talking about brain tumors--many people just use "grade"
Fair enough. But think about the OP and tell me which do you think he was referring to.
Do you think the patient and OP would understand that distinction?
Posted on 3/9/16 at 3:38 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
What are the risks with surgery to remove a golf ball sized grade 2 tumor from the right parietal lobe? Also, what's the long term outlook past surgery if it turns out to not be cancer? What if it is cancer?
There is risk for post surgical bleeding to the brain and swelling. If he keeps the tumor in there are risks for bleeding in the brain and problems with continued growth of the tumor whether it be a benign tumor or malignant.
This post was edited on 3/9/16 at 3:40 pm
Posted on 3/9/16 at 3:40 pm to Hog on the Hill
quote:
Again, for brain tumors, stage/grade are essentially the same thing. "stage" is often not even used when talking about brain tumors--many people just use "grade"
Let me clarify a bit here. It was his wife who used the term "grade" when updating us after she talked to his doctor. She's been quite terrified and a bundle of nerves since all this started so she may have misspoke.
Posted on 3/9/16 at 3:41 pm to Darth_Vader
Grade actually makes sense if the patient was in surgery, because they can do a biopsy and get a pathology report during surgery. That's not uncommon at all for brain tumor resections.
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