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Posted on 10/13/19 at 11:39 am to NoSaint
There could be a design error
Could be something not constructed according to
Could be loading in excess of the design.
I’m guessing it will turn out to be some combination of 2 or all 3 and liability will be assigned accordingly.
Could be something not constructed according to
Could be loading in excess of the design.
I’m guessing it will turn out to be some combination of 2 or all 3 and liability will be assigned accordingly.
Posted on 10/13/19 at 11:52 am to skidry
Is this supposed to be a casino? Or just hotel?
Posted on 10/13/19 at 11:53 am to blzr
Hotel only unless state law changed.
IIRC, Harrah’s near Riverwalk is the only legal land casino in the state which doesn’t sit on an Indian reservation.
IIRC, Harrah’s near Riverwalk is the only legal land casino in the state which doesn’t sit on an Indian reservation.
Posted on 10/13/19 at 12:11 pm to NoSaint
Not designed for that kind of impact.
Posted on 10/13/19 at 12:13 pm to Napoleon
quote:
Not designed for that kind of impact.
Please site your source that a dropped load initiated the collapse.
Is this speculation or a recent news report?
Posted on 10/13/19 at 12:22 pm to tketaco
My bad. Didn’t know guys were working at the site in those conditions.
Kind of fricked up.
Kind of fricked up.
Posted on 10/13/19 at 12:27 pm to AndyCBR
Of course it's not a news source. It comes from eyewitness accounts.
This thread was launched calling it a crane collapse. Yet no crane collapsed.
A crane cable snapped as it was moving a dumpster on the roof. The dumpster can be seen in one of the videos.
The pancacking of the floors is obvious. That is caused be weight, then compounded weight of the above floors.
If you were on site and seen it with you're own eyes you could see one crane is missing its lifting cable.
I mean it makes the most sense
Can't be reported yet and none of the people want to be quoted on record.
This thread was launched calling it a crane collapse. Yet no crane collapsed.
A crane cable snapped as it was moving a dumpster on the roof. The dumpster can be seen in one of the videos.
The pancacking of the floors is obvious. That is caused be weight, then compounded weight of the above floors.
If you were on site and seen it with you're own eyes you could see one crane is missing its lifting cable.
I mean it makes the most sense
Can't be reported yet and none of the people want to be quoted on record.
Posted on 10/13/19 at 12:29 pm to Napoleon
No hook hanging off of left crane.
There was a crane issue. Not a crane collapse. What we saw in the video was the elevator shaft collapse.
All the workers are saying the crane dropped something.
This post was edited on 10/13/19 at 12:31 pm
Posted on 10/13/19 at 12:34 pm to Napoleon
thanks for info dude. keep it coming. you've been the #1 source here
Posted on 10/13/19 at 12:34 pm to Napoleon
the OT structural engineers and commercial real estate lawyers have already decided that this incident was due to faulty design installed by an incompetent contractor and ultimate liability resides with the hotel operator
nice try though
nice try though
This post was edited on 10/13/19 at 12:35 pm
Posted on 10/13/19 at 12:39 pm to Napoleon
I hadn’t seen or heard of any eyewitness accounts thus far. I certainly can’t see a dumpster falling in any of the videos I have seen.
With that said eyewitness testimony sounds compelling.
I’ll wait for more info before saying definitively what caused the collapse but thanks for the info.
Best,
Andy
With that said eyewitness testimony sounds compelling.
I’ll wait for more info before saying definitively what caused the collapse but thanks for the info.
Best,
Andy
Posted on 10/13/19 at 12:40 pm to cgrand
Relax Chris
Posted on 10/13/19 at 12:41 pm to cgrand
People keep saying it's because bracing wasn't in place. The "bracing" is really just the steel 2x4s used to hang drywall on the supports are the red beams.
Skyscrapers often go many floors above the interior build outs.
Not many floors can take tons being dropped on them from up high. It's why wrecking balls work.
This by far makes the most sense.
The only alternative plan that closely makes sense. Is that the crane shifted and knocked over the elevator shaft and that pulled the building away.
Yet you can see three floors pancake before the elevator pulls away.
Im all in thinking the dumpster answer is the best one. One crane is totally missing its hook and cable.
This post was edited on 10/13/19 at 12:47 pm
Posted on 10/13/19 at 12:43 pm to AndyCBR
It's all speculation until the official release.
I know an architect on the project who I haven't talked to and a steel contractor I have talked to.
The latter thinks they had way too many non union guys and temps on the job. He thinks it's worker errors for sure.
Though the crane guys are union. So who knows.
I know an architect on the project who I haven't talked to and a steel contractor I have talked to.
The latter thinks they had way too many non union guys and temps on the job. He thinks it's worker errors for sure.
Though the crane guys are union. So who knows.
This post was edited on 10/13/19 at 12:46 pm
Posted on 10/13/19 at 12:49 pm to Napoleon
Napoleon,
If you have inside info that is great. For those of us that don’t it’s fair to speculate until definitive info is present.
Buildings have collapsed in the past due to premature removal of shores. Yes, metal stud framing typically frames the building envelope off the red iron structure. As I said in a previous post there seems to be very little red iron framing up high.
I didn’t design the structure. But it does seem there is little redundancy in the design. Again, that is speculation without a structural engineers analysis.
Another construction clusterfrick at the downtown library was caused by poor design so let’s not say design issues are out of the realm of possibility in 2019.
I’m interested to see what the determination of the root cause is.
If you have inside info that is great. For those of us that don’t it’s fair to speculate until definitive info is present.
Buildings have collapsed in the past due to premature removal of shores. Yes, metal stud framing typically frames the building envelope off the red iron structure. As I said in a previous post there seems to be very little red iron framing up high.
I didn’t design the structure. But it does seem there is little redundancy in the design. Again, that is speculation without a structural engineers analysis.
Another construction clusterfrick at the downtown library was caused by poor design so let’s not say design issues are out of the realm of possibility in 2019.
I’m interested to see what the determination of the root cause is.
This post was edited on 10/13/19 at 12:56 pm
Posted on 10/13/19 at 12:56 pm to AndyCBR
It's common to build the frame ahead of the shoring. As long as there isn't a weather issue or something crazy happening it's usually fine. Is it cost cutting? Yes. Can it lead to the floors not being as strong? Yes.
Long ago as a summer job I installed those steel studs on jobs. They were shot into the red iron with a hammer gun that used blanks to fire special nails or they were stick welded.
They brace a little And add to the support a bit. They are not the structural supports though. In theory the steel (red iron beams) should be all the support that is needed.
The spaces between beams did look a little large.
So non engineer thought. I would have liked to see more red.
Long ago as a summer job I installed those steel studs on jobs. They were shot into the red iron with a hammer gun that used blanks to fire special nails or they were stick welded.
They brace a little And add to the support a bit. They are not the structural supports though. In theory the steel (red iron beams) should be all the support that is needed.
The spaces between beams did look a little large.
So non engineer thought. I would have liked to see more red.
Posted on 10/13/19 at 12:57 pm to Napoleon
Both cranes appear to have their lifting apparatus intact if you examine the pics in the OP. Doesn’t mean it wasn’t a rigging failure though.
Particularly pictures 3&7 if you count the gif as #1
Particularly pictures 3&7 if you count the gif as #1
Posted on 10/13/19 at 12:59 pm to Napoleon
There is almost never any “shoring” on these types of structures. The decking (or joists) bears the weight of the slab. This is either a design issue or like was posted something dropped on the exterior or a weak point that caused a cascading failure.
Light gauge metal studs do not support any structural weight but only carry the drywall and finishes.
Light gauge metal studs do not support any structural weight but only carry the drywall and finishes.
Posted on 10/13/19 at 1:01 pm to AndyCBR
I can’t tell from the photos but I thought I read that the floors were “stay in place” corrugated forms. They don’t ever get removed and are not shored.
This post was edited on 10/13/19 at 1:02 pm
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