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Posted on 4/1/16 at 4:51 pm to N2cars
I know we mostly agree, but I'm just coming from a diff. POV.
Posted on 4/1/16 at 5:00 pm to N2cars
quote:
Drug dogs are notoriously fallible.
Here's a great article for anyone interested on the fallibility of drug dogs.
Federal appeals court: Drug dog that’s barely more accurate than a coin flip is good enough
quote:
In 2013, the Supreme Court made things worse in Florida v. Harris. In that case, the court unanimously ruled that mere certification of a drug dog was enough to establish a presumption that a drug dog is reliable, regardless of the reputation of the certifying organization, regardless of whether that organization understands and appreciates the importance of training dogs to ignore their handlers’ suspicions, and regardless of the dog’s performance in the real world.
In U.S. v. Bentley, we see just how damaging the Harris decision really was. Lex, the drug dog that searched Bentley’s car, had a 93 percent alert rate. That is, when Lex was called to search a car, he alerted 93 percent of the time. He was basically a probable cause generator. His success rate was much lower, at 59 percent. That is, the police actually found drugs just six of the 10 times Lex told them they would. That means that four of every 10 people Lex alerted to were subjected to a thorough roadside search that produced nothing illegal.
It gets worse. Even a dog that was well trained initially can be conditioned to pick up bad habits once it’s in the field. This is exactly what was happening with Lex. It turns out that Lex’s handler gives the dog a reward every time he alerts, regardless of whether that alert is accurate. Lex isn’t getting rewarded for filtering innocent motorists from guilty ones. He’s being trained to authorize a search, each and every time he’s called to duty.
Posted on 4/1/16 at 5:13 pm to NYNolaguy1
That dog was accurate more often than not, and while the is a bit ridiculous in a criminal case, it bolsters my argument about common sense.
Common sense says the money is nefarious more often than not if you cannot prove otherwise. In no way does that mean it should be seized though.
Common sense says the money is nefarious more often than not if you cannot prove otherwise. In no way does that mean it should be seized though.
Posted on 4/1/16 at 5:18 pm to slackster
After Hurricane Katrina a man came into my bank (I was a teller) and presented a check for $97k and some change. Big check. Big money.
I called the account holder and he said pay the man
While he was packing the money into his black duffle bag, I had to ask him.
"So, what do you do?"
He looked at me, smiled, and said, "That check was for grinding tree stumps."
He drove back to Tennessee with that cash, CTR in hand.
Now, ask yourself, would that pass an ordinary, ill-trained police officer's "common sense" test?
Now, let me ask you another question. Do you think he wants it to?
I called the account holder and he said pay the man
While he was packing the money into his black duffle bag, I had to ask him.
"So, what do you do?"
He looked at me, smiled, and said, "That check was for grinding tree stumps."
He drove back to Tennessee with that cash, CTR in hand.
Now, ask yourself, would that pass an ordinary, ill-trained police officer's "common sense" test?
Now, let me ask you another question. Do you think he wants it to?
Posted on 4/1/16 at 5:19 pm to slackster
quote:
That dog was accurate more often than not
I didnt see it that way. Cops found drugs 60% of the time. Is it the dog or is it because the people being pulled over are likely candidates that carry drugs? The dog is alerting 93% of the time means the handler is telling the dog to alert. Its all bullshite when it comes to these badges.
Posted on 4/1/16 at 5:28 pm to saintsfan1977
And there are no universeal training standards for these dogs or their handlers.
It is ludicrous.
It is ludicrous.
Posted on 4/1/16 at 5:33 pm to SabiDojo
There are people that do some weird and frankly unnecessary shite with cash. That doesn't change the fact that the majority of people who have $100k in cash in a duffle bag have bad intentions.
I really don't understand how this is debatable. We can list exceptions all afternoon, but you and I both know most of the time either the source or the destination want/need cash for money laundering and/or tax evasion. They don't deserve to have it taken unless it can be proven, but let's not act like it is a totally normal behavior.
I really don't understand how this is debatable. We can list exceptions all afternoon, but you and I both know most of the time either the source or the destination want/need cash for money laundering and/or tax evasion. They don't deserve to have it taken unless it can be proven, but let's not act like it is a totally normal behavior.
Posted on 4/1/16 at 5:40 pm to slackster
And what of the cases of people traveling with $3,000? When does the amount become, via common sense, "drug money"?
The problem is that the officer needs very little justification to categorize it as drug money, and has every incentive to do so.
The problem is that the officer needs very little justification to categorize it as drug money, and has every incentive to do so.
This post was edited on 4/1/16 at 6:01 pm
Posted on 4/1/16 at 5:55 pm to slackster
quote:
Common sense says the money is nefarious more often than not if you cannot prove otherwise. In no way does that mean it should be seized though
You have completely lost your mind. Please stop using the common sense argument because there is no common sense to what you are arguing. You have got to be trolling. My dad was the vice president of Concordia bank. He regularly carried 40 to 50 thousand dollars on him and paid cash for everything. It's not against the law to carry large sums of cash. You act like no one has ever abused this law when nothing could be further from the truth
Posted on 4/1/16 at 5:59 pm to slackster
Did you ever bother to read the linked article I posted earler? If so aren't you bithered by the number of times the court returned the seized goods? Even though these proceedings take place in virtual kangaroo courts with a vested funding interest in keeping the stolen money.
Keep in mind also the return came with strings that blocked the victims seeking restitution for lost time, opportunity, legal fees etc. These are huge shitty disadvantages to put people through. If you are poor or practical you probably have no option to get your money back or won't waste more money trying to get back your stolen property.
For some reason you are sympathizing with the police even though they directly profit from stealing and are protected from appropriate legal penalty - jail. You also seem to defend the practice in general (by referring to people carrying $100K) when the average seizure is a tiny fraction of that - again see the linked article.
Keep in mind also the return came with strings that blocked the victims seeking restitution for lost time, opportunity, legal fees etc. These are huge shitty disadvantages to put people through. If you are poor or practical you probably have no option to get your money back or won't waste more money trying to get back your stolen property.
For some reason you are sympathizing with the police even though they directly profit from stealing and are protected from appropriate legal penalty - jail. You also seem to defend the practice in general (by referring to people carrying $100K) when the average seizure is a tiny fraction of that - again see the linked article.
Posted on 4/1/16 at 8:44 pm to molsusports
I did read the article and I've repeatedly mentioned that the practice is abysmal - many many times.
You're lying through your teeth (the poster above you) if you think people carrying $10k+ cash in 2016 have good intentions the majority of the time. That isn't justification for it to be seized, but to argue that it is for a good reason is false for the vast majority of the public.
You're lying through your teeth (the poster above you) if you think people carrying $10k+ cash in 2016 have good intentions the majority of the time. That isn't justification for it to be seized, but to argue that it is for a good reason is false for the vast majority of the public.
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