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re: Normandy- Omaha Beach question
Posted on 6/7/14 at 10:08 pm to Volvagia
Posted on 6/7/14 at 10:08 pm to Volvagia
Of course when you are firing point blank into targets that can be seen, then that will make a difference. But to say that they werent accurate is ridiculous. The troops were able to land, but they weren't unopposed, were they?
Your point is valid because the gunners had eyes on target making it much easier to hit smaller, dug in targets. However, that wasn't enough regardless of weather conditions. My previous.examples of the Pacific theater battles disprove your weather arguments. Think about Tarawa, Iwo, and the rest. Our losses were enormous and the weather was clear as a bell with naval and airel bombardment...those defenders were no more dug in than the Germans were, so how do you account for that?
Your point is valid because the gunners had eyes on target making it much easier to hit smaller, dug in targets. However, that wasn't enough regardless of weather conditions. My previous.examples of the Pacific theater battles disprove your weather arguments. Think about Tarawa, Iwo, and the rest. Our losses were enormous and the weather was clear as a bell with naval and airel bombardment...those defenders were no more dug in than the Germans were, so how do you account for that?
0
Posted on 6/7/14 at 10:15 pm to Volvagia
Here you go:
"During WWII, Mr. Adams was one of only 15 US Navy pilots awarded the distinct honor of flying with Britain’s Royal Air Force for the 1944 D-Day invasion of Normandy. While flying his British Spitfire, he encountered enemy fire and was forced to make an emergency landing on the beaches of Normandy during the invasion by Allied Forces. According to historical accounts of the day, he was the first American pilot to land during the invasion. Repairs were quickly made to his plane and, after refueling, he again took to the air to spot enemy targets and direct Allied weapons fire to those targets for destruction. He flew 13 sorties on D-Day. Flying once again for the US Navy, Mr. Adams also par"During WWII, Mr. Adams was one of only 15 US Navy pilots awarded the distinct honor of flying with Britain’s Royal Air Force for the 1944 D-Day invasion of Normandy. While flying his British Spitfire, he encountered enemy fire and was forced to make an emergency landing on the beaches of Normandy during the invasion by Allied Forces. According to historical accounts of the day, he was the first American pilot to land during the invasion. Repairs were quickly made to his plane and, after refueling, he again took to the air to spot enemy targets and direct Allied weapons fire to those targets for destruction. He flew 13 sorties on D-Day. Flying once again for the US Navy, Mr. Adams also participated in the August, 1944 invasion of southern France. He received US Naval Air Medals for both campaigns. He was also awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross, the American Theatre and the European-African-Middle Eastern Theatre Ribbons with two stars......"ticipated in the August, 1944 invasion of southern France. He received US Naval Air Medals for both campaigns. He was also awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross, the American Theatre and the European-African-Middle Eastern Theatre Ribbons with two stars......"
Search his name if you'd like ... Robert Jules Adams (or just Robert J. Adams)
I wish I knew how he was chosen as 1 of the 15.
"During WWII, Mr. Adams was one of only 15 US Navy pilots awarded the distinct honor of flying with Britain’s Royal Air Force for the 1944 D-Day invasion of Normandy. While flying his British Spitfire, he encountered enemy fire and was forced to make an emergency landing on the beaches of Normandy during the invasion by Allied Forces. According to historical accounts of the day, he was the first American pilot to land during the invasion. Repairs were quickly made to his plane and, after refueling, he again took to the air to spot enemy targets and direct Allied weapons fire to those targets for destruction. He flew 13 sorties on D-Day. Flying once again for the US Navy, Mr. Adams also par"During WWII, Mr. Adams was one of only 15 US Navy pilots awarded the distinct honor of flying with Britain’s Royal Air Force for the 1944 D-Day invasion of Normandy. While flying his British Spitfire, he encountered enemy fire and was forced to make an emergency landing on the beaches of Normandy during the invasion by Allied Forces. According to historical accounts of the day, he was the first American pilot to land during the invasion. Repairs were quickly made to his plane and, after refueling, he again took to the air to spot enemy targets and direct Allied weapons fire to those targets for destruction. He flew 13 sorties on D-Day. Flying once again for the US Navy, Mr. Adams also participated in the August, 1944 invasion of southern France. He received US Naval Air Medals for both campaigns. He was also awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross, the American Theatre and the European-African-Middle Eastern Theatre Ribbons with two stars......"ticipated in the August, 1944 invasion of southern France. He received US Naval Air Medals for both campaigns. He was also awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross, the American Theatre and the European-African-Middle Eastern Theatre Ribbons with two stars......"
Search his name if you'd like ... Robert Jules Adams (or just Robert J. Adams)
I wish I knew how he was chosen as 1 of the 15.
Posted on 6/7/14 at 10:31 pm to dallastiger55
Was wondering the same. We are getting killed and then 1-2 captains bring their ships in and start blowing holes in the Germans and our troops finally start making real headway. Why they waited or didn't bomb first I don't know except I guess they wanted troops On the land ASAP and couldn't get ships close enough until transports were done.
Posted on 6/7/14 at 10:31 pm to tiger91
Posted on 6/7/14 at 10:36 pm to dallastiger55
Posted on 6/7/14 at 10:38 pm to tiger91
Posted on 6/7/14 at 10:45 pm to seeLSUrun
quote:
The whole operation. The planning, the build up, the espionage, is absolutely fascinating
It's insane. In today's day and age there's not a chance in hell such an operation is ever approved IMO. Casualty rates were predicted to be 90 percent at best. The Allies hoped, in the best-case scenario, to land five divisions in France during the first twenty-four hours; the Germans had fifty infantry and eleven armored divisions waiting for them.
When Sir Alan Brooke, Chief of the Imperial General Staff, laid out the details of the attack, he ended his presentation with "Well, there it is. It won't work, but you must bloody well make it".
Posted on 6/7/14 at 11:04 pm to tiger91
I didn't mean to imply that you were a liar.
Just what you were saying didn't add up.
You can believe it and not have it add up....and your evidence supports my suppositions.
1) Quote says he was a naval aviator who was spotting targets for bombardment.
You didn't sight targets for bombardment with WW2 era technology at midnight. From what I see, sighted bombardment started at 5 am.
2) Link given states that he was the first naval aviator...not first American. We kinda hit on this topic already with another poster.
Props to him for his service, and that is a distinction to be proud of. I only commented because of the statement of being "the first American" to set foot in Normandy, which I would imagine is an statement that is impossible to verify by anyone. Closest you can get is "one of the first." And that doesn't apply in this case.
Just what you were saying didn't add up.
You can believe it and not have it add up....and your evidence supports my suppositions.
1) Quote says he was a naval aviator who was spotting targets for bombardment.
You didn't sight targets for bombardment with WW2 era technology at midnight. From what I see, sighted bombardment started at 5 am.
2) Link given states that he was the first naval aviator...not first American. We kinda hit on this topic already with another poster.
Props to him for his service, and that is a distinction to be proud of. I only commented because of the statement of being "the first American" to set foot in Normandy, which I would imagine is an statement that is impossible to verify by anyone. Closest you can get is "one of the first." And that doesn't apply in this case.
This post was edited on 6/7/14 at 11:06 pm
Posted on 6/7/14 at 11:09 pm to Volvagia
quote:
But it was a BIG talking point in historical recounts how they gave the infantry a big breakfast the day of the invasion....only to have most of them puke it up in transit.
Part of the urgency is that they had been on the ships a while - they were out there all day on the 5th - and rough seas prevented the landings then - Ike ordered a go on the 6th because he had to do that, or bring them back to England and try again in July or August when the tides were right.
Posted on 6/7/14 at 11:11 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
06.10 B-17 Flying Fortresses and B-24 Liberators bomb batteries over Omaha Beach but cloud cover means they mostly miss their targets.
This was huge. The Air Corp over shot their targets, and so the pill boxes were untouched.
Posted on 6/7/14 at 11:15 pm to Volvagia
quote:
Months.
He's is right about the accuracy of guns at the time being an issue of naval artillery support on D day, but wrong about technology suddenly resolving them for Pacific theater battles.
Didn't mean to insinuate that the technology was widely different on the Pacific. Just saying that while our improved firing systems were substantially better than that Japs' and helped in certain conflicts (like Leyte Gulf where our firing accuracy compared to theirs is staggering) it was still too risky in this situation.
Posted on 6/7/14 at 11:25 pm to redandright
quote:The pill boxes are still there today.
The Air Corp over shot their targets, and so the pill boxes were untouched.
Posted on 6/8/14 at 8:48 am to Monk
quote:
Why they waited or didn't bomb first I don't know except I guess they wanted troops On the land ASAP
They tried to bomb but weather, clouds, and anti aircraft fire made it poor at best. And fog. For both the planes and later ships
Posted on 6/8/14 at 8:50 am to dallastiger55
Miscalculated on artillery from planes and ships.
Damn near all bombs missed there mark.
I was watching this other day and wondered same thing.
They said some landed as far as 2 miles inland.
Damn near all bombs missed there mark.
I was watching this other day and wondered same thing.
They said some landed as far as 2 miles inland.
Posted on 6/9/14 at 9:20 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
Part of the urgency is that they had been on the ships a while - they were out there all day on the 5th - and rough seas prevented the landings then - Ike ordered a go on the 6th because he had to do that, or bring them back to England and try again in July or August when the tides were right.
The next favorable tides were two weeks, not July or August. Regardless, the fear was that their subterfuge of Operation Fortitude would be discovered. We also knew that Rommel had dammed the River Dives and flooded the countryside into which the paratroopers of the 82nd and 101 would be landing. More would've drowned if and been unable to help the invasion if more time had been taken.
Posted on 6/9/14 at 9:22 pm to TIGERSandFROGS
I believe it was a combination of factors, if I remember right from the show. They couldn't see what they were firing at from their distance, didn't know whether or not the 5 big German guns were taken out, and most importantly, did not yet have orders to approach the beach.
This post was edited on 6/9/14 at 9:23 pm
Posted on 6/9/14 at 9:31 pm to dallastiger55
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