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re: Myth Busters/Can a plane take off on a conveyor belt
Posted on 12/6/07 at 3:51 pm to LSU Fan 90812
Posted on 12/6/07 at 3:51 pm to LSU Fan 90812
Of course it's gonna move, but that's b/c I can move my right hand with as much force as I'd like. And even though I'm much weaker now than I was in my prime (and I was a stud in my prime 
), I'm still stronger than a pencil and whatever friction it may cause. 
), I'm still stronger than a pencil and whatever friction it may cause. 
Posted on 12/6/07 at 3:55 pm to Dale Murphy
quote:So a major force overcomes a minor friction force resulting in motion.
Of course it's gonna move . . . I'm still stronger than a pencil and whatever friction it may cause.
Bravo!!! Bravissimo!!
Posted on 12/6/07 at 3:57 pm to just me
quote:
So a major force overcomes a minor friction force resulting in motion.
That's not the science I was arguing.
Posted on 12/6/07 at 3:57 pm to Dale Murphy
quote:
Of course it's gonna move, but that's b/c I can move my right hand with as much force as I'd like. And even though I'm much weaker now than I was in my prime (and I was a stud in my prime ), I'm still stronger than a pencil and whatever friction it may cause
were you not moving your left hand with just as much force as the right hand?
Posted on 12/6/07 at 4:00 pm to LSU Fan 90812
quote:
were you not moving your left hand with just as much force as the right hand?
See my above post. I was seriously thinking people believed a plane could fly just from expulsion power. If it moves, then yes it'll fly. I'm dumb but not that dumb.
Posted on 12/6/07 at 4:26 pm to Dale Murphy
Wow people! I cannot believe this thread is this long... and more unbelievable is the amount of people with no knowlege of physics whatsoever.
In order for a plane to take off, it MUST achieve enough FORWARD SPEED RELATIVE TO THE GROUND... NOT SOME STUPID CONVEYOR BELT!!!!
The way an airplane wing works is this... as the air flows past the wing, suction is created on the TOP of the wing, PULLING THE PLANE UP (LIFT!!) Then, and ONLY then will the plane achieve takeoff.
If the takeoff speed of, say, a Boeing 737 is 165mph, it must achieve 165 mph to take off. If the conveyor belt is moving at 165mph, it DOES'T mean that the plane will take off. It just means that the plane will be stationary.
I cannot believe that Myth Busters is even doing this. Just proves to me that they have run out of ideas, and the show should be cancelled.
/thread
In order for a plane to take off, it MUST achieve enough FORWARD SPEED RELATIVE TO THE GROUND... NOT SOME STUPID CONVEYOR BELT!!!!
The way an airplane wing works is this... as the air flows past the wing, suction is created on the TOP of the wing, PULLING THE PLANE UP (LIFT!!) Then, and ONLY then will the plane achieve takeoff.
If the takeoff speed of, say, a Boeing 737 is 165mph, it must achieve 165 mph to take off. If the conveyor belt is moving at 165mph, it DOES'T mean that the plane will take off. It just means that the plane will be stationary.
I cannot believe that Myth Busters is even doing this. Just proves to me that they have run out of ideas, and the show should be cancelled.
/thread
This post was edited on 12/6/07 at 4:29 pm
Posted on 12/6/07 at 4:28 pm to TSmith
quote:
TSmith
Welcome to the long list of people below the karma line. Congrats.
Posted on 12/6/07 at 4:31 pm to LSUBoo
i think we should just keep this thread going until the episode.
Posted on 12/6/07 at 4:33 pm to LSU Fan 90812
quote:
i think we should just keep this thread going until the episode.
Well, it's Monday, so that shouldn't be hard.
I really hope it proves thisz thread wrong though. That would even mean I am wrong, but I just think that would be hilarious.
Posted on 12/6/07 at 4:34 pm to LSUBoo
quote:
Welcome to the long list of people below the karma line. Congrats
Putting thrust and the speed at which the conveyor is moving aside, the assumption is that the plane is stationary on the conveyor belt, correct?
Can a plane overcome an imaginary 3 mile long conveyor belt moving at 90mph? Of course.
This post was edited on 12/6/07 at 4:37 pm
Posted on 12/6/07 at 4:35 pm to CocomoLSU
quote:
I really hope it proves thisz thread wrong though. That would even mean I am wrong, but I just think that would be hilarious.
That would be pretty funny... I'm thinking they did get it to work, judging from what I've read. Maybe not though... haven't been able to find a good spoiler.
Posted on 12/6/07 at 4:39 pm to TSmith
quote:
Putting thrust and the speed at which the conveyor is moving aside, the assumption is that the plane is stationary on the conveyor belt, correct?
no. the problem says nothing about the plane being stationary on a conveyor belt.
it says only that the conveyor belt will move in the opposite direction of the plane at the same speed in which the plane moves forward.
From the initial post.
quote:
If a plane is traveling at takeoff speed on a conveyor belt, and the belt is matching that speed in the opposite direction, can the plane take off
nice try though.
This post was edited on 12/6/07 at 4:41 pm
Posted on 12/6/07 at 4:42 pm to LSUBoo
for the record, I think it will eventually take off, but it is going to need a much longer runway. the pulling yourself along the treadmill isnt relevant in this case because you are holding yourself in place and not having to counteract the rearward movement and tailwind that will be present on the plane. should be interesting to see what happens. a big factor in this will be how they handle the speed of the treadmill in relation to the speed of the airplane.
Posted on 12/6/07 at 4:45 pm to LSU Fan 90812
quote:
nice try though.
Ok I thought the assumption was that it is stationary. Gotcha.
In that case, the only thing the conveyor belt would be causing is the wheels to move faster. It WOULD still take off.
Unlike a land vehicle, a plane does not rely on ground friction to take off. It relies on air friction. However, if the conveyor belt was, say, 100yds wide, the plane would certainly not take off as easily as if the conveyor belt width was only as wide as the wheel base. The plane does rely somewhat on ground friction on takeoff.
Now, if the plane were in a huge wind tunnel capable of producing head winds of 700+ mph, the plane wouldn't take off.
Definitely a brain teaser, and I'm not sure how the hell they will replicate this, but the plane should take off
This post was edited on 12/6/07 at 4:49 pm
Posted on 12/6/07 at 4:45 pm to diat150
quote:
for the record, I think it will eventually take off, but it is going to need a much longer runway
They used 1/4 mile with an ultralight. But in theory, it needs the same length of runway as the ultralight would normally use to takeoff. If it's more, it's fairly negligible because the small forces of increased friction in the wheel bearings are nothing compared to the forces of the plane's engine.
quote:
a big factor in this will be how they handle the speed of the treadmill in relation to the speed of the airplane.
Assuming the plane can calculate its speed nearly instantly, and they can relay that information to the treadmill, which can constantly change to match... should be feasible. If there's a slight delay it wouldn't affect the overall premise though.
Posted on 12/6/07 at 4:46 pm to CocomoLSU
quote:It would be hilarious . . . and humiliating.
That would even mean I am wrong, but I just think that would be hilarious.
But I understand physics, and I'm not worried.
Posted on 12/6/07 at 4:47 pm to LSUBoo
this thread is still going? how? 
has anyone determined if it was an african or european swallow?
.......nevermind.
has anyone determined if it was an african or european swallow?
.......nevermind.
Posted on 12/6/07 at 4:48 pm to TSmith
quote:
Now, if the plane were in a huge wind tunnel capable of producing head winds of 700+ mph, the plane wouldn't take off.
Yeah, in that case it would, but would be flying backwards. 700 mph would definitely generate the lift required for the plane to take off... but once in the air, it wouldn't be able to push forward, it would be pushed backwards. (I think...)
Posted on 12/6/07 at 4:48 pm to tigernurse
quote:
this thread is still going? how?
they're born every day.
quote:
has anyone determined if it was an african or european swallow?
thought you were American?
Posted on 12/6/07 at 4:50 pm to LSUBoo
quote:
Yeah, in that case it would, but would be flying backwards. 700 mph would definitely generate the lift required for the plane to take off... but once in the air, it wouldn't be able to push forward, it would be pushed backwards. (I think...)
True, it would take off in the wind tunnel, but remain stationary, assuming the head winds match the forward speed of the aircraft.
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