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re: Major airline disaster in South Korea, plane crashes with 181 passengers aboard...
Posted on 12/30/24 at 12:53 pm to GeorgeTheGreek
Posted on 12/30/24 at 12:53 pm to GeorgeTheGreek
quote:
Don’t you think when they hit the ground on their belly they’d have tried to pull back up?
Lookup the PIA 8303 accident and you'll see what happens when you try that.
This post was edited on 12/30/24 at 12:54 pm
1
Posted on 12/30/24 at 12:57 pm to KosmoCramer
quote:
They likely retracted the flaps when they went around after the bird strike.
Why they didn't add them back in on landing is a mystery right now.
If they were down an engine would there not be a benefit to leaving them extended for additional lift? Or does it make the plane way less maneuverable or something else that would lead to them being retracted?
ETA: I can imagine some on board actually breathed somewhat of a sigh of relief when it touched down and was skidding on the runway...only the pilots knew what was coming.
This post was edited on 12/30/24 at 1:00 pm
Posted on 12/30/24 at 12:59 pm to Saintsisit
quote:
Lookup the PIA 8303 accident and you'll see what happens when you try that.
There have been a ton of Asian pilot error accidents since 2010 yet people are looking for another explanation for this one. People want to look for something mechanical because they don't want to think their pilots are shitty. But American pilots are simply better. There have been 0 American *commercial pilot major accidents in that same time frame. Avoid Asia with their bad pilots and archaic caste CRM and you'll be fine.
*of course there are a ton of shitty private Joes who crash
This post was edited on 12/30/24 at 1:04 pm
Posted on 12/30/24 at 1:00 pm to 0x15E
You guys watch too many YouTube channels about air crashes.
Posted on 12/30/24 at 1:22 pm to Chucktown_Badger
There were a couple of other belly landings over the last couple of days, but nobody was killed.
Had it not been for that reinforced concrete mount for the antennas at the end of the runway it is likely than no one would have died. I'm sure this tragic ending will make sure nobody ever puts things like that at the end of a runway again.
Had it not been for that reinforced concrete mount for the antennas at the end of the runway it is likely than no one would have died. I'm sure this tragic ending will make sure nobody ever puts things like that at the end of a runway again.
Posted on 12/30/24 at 1:26 pm to Auburn1968
quote:
Had it not been for that reinforced concrete mount for the antennas at the end of the runway it is likely than no one would have died. I'm sure this tragic ending will make sure nobody ever puts things like that at the end of a runway again.
It's my understanding that just beyond that reinforced concrete mount was a 10' high concrete wall that encompasses the entire airport / runway so it would've plowed into that instead.
Posted on 12/30/24 at 1:26 pm to redstick13
quote:
You guys watch too many YouTube channels about air crashes.
While tragic, there is no better way to get an understanding of how things can go wrong in aviation and learn from other’s mistakes.
Posted on 12/30/24 at 1:28 pm to Auburn1968
quote:
Had it not been for that reinforced concrete mount for the antennas at the end of the runway it is likely than no one would have died.
Had they not exited the runway @ 150+mph with no brakes it is likely no one would have died.
FIFY
Posted on 12/30/24 at 1:30 pm to Saintsisit
quote:
Hints on pilots possibly shut down engine #1 mistakingly and engine #2 that had the stall was producing partial power.
Certainly possible but there does seem to have the sound of an engine at high power as it crashes at the end. But then again, they may have realized they shut down the wrong engine but it was too late for it to spool back up in time.
Posted on 12/30/24 at 1:30 pm to Saintsisit
quote:
Had they not exited the runway @ 150+mph with no brakes it is likely no one would have died.
landing a jet with the gear up in itself isn't that big of a deal, there's going to be a lot more to come out of this
Posted on 12/30/24 at 1:32 pm to Ziggy
quote:
It's my understanding that just beyond that reinforced concrete mount was a 10' high concrete wall that encompasses the entire airport / runway so it would've plowed into that instead.
I saw a picture and it was exactly as you described.
I'm not sure how much distance was between the concrete ILS debacle and the concrete wall, but yeah.
Posted on 12/30/24 at 1:32 pm to Chucktown_Badger
quote:
If they were down an engine would there not be a benefit to leaving them extended for additional lift? Or does it make the plane way less maneuverable or something else that would lead to them being retracted?
In twin-engine operations, after losing an engine, drag devices (flaps, gear, etc.) will not allow most aircraft to climb, those that can will get dangerously close to what is called Vmc or “minimum controllable airspeed” which can lead to a Vmc roll/spin.
If you have to go around, it is better to dump the drag, and get to an airspeed that will give you the best climb performance on a single engine, while also not dropping below Vmc.
Posted on 12/30/24 at 1:38 pm to 777Tiger
quote:
landing a jet with the gear up in itself isn't that big of a deal, there's going to be a lot more to come out of this
I agree, but touching down that late and that fast is a big deal.
Posted on 12/30/24 at 2:33 pm to 0x15E
quote:
In twin-engine operations, after losing an engine, drag devices (flaps, gear, etc.) will not allow most aircraft to climb, those that can will get dangerously close to what is called Vmc or “minimum controllable airspeed” which can lead to a Vmc roll/spin.
If you have to go around, it is better to dump the drag, and get to an airspeed that will give you the best climb performance on a single engine, while also not dropping below Vmc.
haven't read the entire thread, but there are detailed checklists for this sort of thing. checklists are thorough but take time, more than 5 minutes. what was the hurry if they still had one good engine? even no engines doesn't explain the how they were configured at landing.
Posted on 12/30/24 at 2:37 pm to Jmcc64
quote:
haven't read the entire thread, but there are detailed checklists for this sort of thing. checklists are thorough but take time, more than 5 minutes. what was the hurry if they still had one good engine? even no engines doesn't explain the how they were configured at landing.
That's essentially the whole discussion being had in this thread.
Posted on 12/30/24 at 3:16 pm to redstick13
quote:
You guys watch too many YouTube channels about air crashes.
PULL UP PULL UP PULL UP
Love me some air disasters(series on Smithsonian channel) . My wife thinks I am crazy but if I am going down I will try and diagnose the problem before I die.
This post was edited on 12/30/24 at 3:18 pm
Posted on 12/30/24 at 3:28 pm to FLBooGoTigs1
quote:
Love me some air disasters(series on Smithsonian channel) . My wife thinks I am crazy but if I am going down I will try and diagnose the problem before I die.
Plane hurtling towards the ground, everyone screaming.
FLBoo yells at flight attendant: Ask the pilot if it was a bird strike. I bet it was a bird strike.
Flight attendant: SCREAMING!!
FLBoo: It’s hydraulics loss like Sioux City isn’t it? I bet.
This post was edited on 12/30/24 at 3:33 pm
Posted on 12/30/24 at 4:50 pm to FLBooGoTigs1
quote:
PULL UP PULL UP PULL UP
I was flying into Austin once and was sitting close enough to the cockpit to hear bitching Betty saying this. Nobody else noticed. Didn’t die, unfortunately for this board, but it kicked off 20 seconds of me justifying in my head why there was no need to worry before touchdown.
Posted on 12/30/24 at 5:03 pm to wareaglepete
quote:
FLBoo: It’s hydraulics loss like Sioux City isn’t it? I bet.
I'm always practicing on Microsoft Simulator waiting for my moment.
Posted on 12/30/24 at 5:12 pm to LSU Grad Alabama Fan
F-19 by microprose, before it became F-117. Doppler or pulse radar, got it handled!
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