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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 6/23/25 at 11:46 am to
Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
7699 posts
Posted on 6/23/25 at 11:46 am to
quote:

Volsquatch: All of those can coexist and be true.


quote:

What you and a lot of others miss is there are degrees of the truth.






quote:

Doubleb: Sure Russia is winning, but look at the costs. What will the future hold as a result?



quote:

Volsquatch: The long term cost in that scenario would be the issue.


Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
7699 posts
Posted on 6/23/25 at 11:51 am to
quote:

What he has done with this, though, is embarrass Putin... being an ally of Putin does not shield you from attacks on this scale. Paired with the outcome in Syria, that makes Putin look weak... and that's probably going to bring some disproportionate response somewhere to keep people INSIDE the Russian sphere in line.


Putin would never have done anything to counter what happened to Iran over the past week. The big thing they were getting from Iran was drones and now Russia is building a better version themselves. I think "this makes Putin look weak" is really grasping at straws here.

What is does highlight is that these guys won't actually help each other when the chips are down, outside of North Korea which needs any friend it can get (and is stuck with Russia and China). So bad actors like Iran and Russia are fighting against coalitions ultimately on their own. China is playing a different game entirely because they know better.
Posted by Lee B
Member since Dec 2018
3499 posts
Posted on 6/23/25 at 12:07 pm to
quote:

What you and a lot of others miss is there are degrees of the truth.

As far as winning, think about WWI. Yes the allies won and the Central powers lost; but what did England and France really win.

Millions of their young men died, billions of dollars went into the war instead of their homelands, and twenty years later they were fighting for survival,

Sure Russia is winning, but look at the costs. What will the future hold as a result?



WWI was really about "Empires" and who got to have one... and the resulting answer, basically, was "no one, anymore."

So the British and French devised a new way of having an Empire that they didn't have to outright occupy themselves... almost on the model of how the Mongols set up Russia in their rule. They divided up the Ottoman Empire and rigged it to be forever unstable with minority groups in charge of the newly created/recreated states who would be reliant on them. In that regard, they gained temporarily, as far as oil.

But ultimately the mistake was in how Germany was handled. I remember a teacher saying "people ask how WWII could have been prevented? Well... if somebody had killed Bismarck as a baby..."

This post was edited on 6/23/25 at 12:09 pm
Posted by Lee B
Member since Dec 2018
3499 posts
Posted on 6/23/25 at 12:37 pm to
quote:

Putin would never have done anything to counter what happened to Iran over the past week. The big thing they were getting from Iran was drones and now Russia is building a better version themselves. I think "this makes Putin look weak" is really grasping at straws here.

What is does highlight is that these guys won't actually help each other when the chips are down, outside of North Korea which needs any friend it can get (and is stuck with Russia and China). So bad actors like Iran and Russia are fighting against coalitions ultimately on their own. China is playing a different game entirely because they know better.


None of that is untrue, but this does make Putin look weak... which is why Russia is saying "other countries (implying Russia and North Korea?)" will supply Iran with nuclear warheads.

Sure, that's most certainly a bluff... but a desperate one.

Look at a map. Russia does not want regime change in Iran, especially not to a Western-friendly entity (though I think even anti-Khomeini Iranians are tired of the US and West at this point)... think like a paranoid Russian dictator... that opens the Caspian Sea as a front to worry about... as well as Azerbaijan, Armenia, Georgia being swayed away.

Putin and Russia have based their international relations mostly on intimidation (to people who don't need natural gas)... when it keeps getting revealed there's nothing to really back that up, conventional military-wise... what do they have left but being like North Korea, intimidating because they're lunatics with nukes?



This post was edited on 6/23/25 at 4:50 pm
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
41836 posts
Posted on 6/23/25 at 1:44 pm to
Add Iran to the list of countries/regimes that Russia has supported since the Korean and Vietnam Wars that went down or were left hanging.

Syria
Iraq
Libya
Egypt

Posted by Lee B
Member since Dec 2018
3499 posts
Posted on 6/23/25 at 2:41 pm to
quote:

Egypt


Which regime are you counting?
Posted by AU86
Member since Aug 2009
26257 posts
Posted on 6/23/25 at 2:43 pm to
Probably Nasser
Posted by Lee B
Member since Dec 2018
3499 posts
Posted on 6/23/25 at 2:45 pm to
quote:

China is playing a different game entirely because they know better.


My take is that China wants to conquer the West economically/technologically/intellectually... not militarily.

They want to be 1980s Japan on steroids.
Posted by Lee B
Member since Dec 2018
3499 posts
Posted on 6/23/25 at 2:59 pm to
quote:

Probably Nasser


hmmm... didn't he die a popular leader?

Mubarak? He was overthrown in the "Arab Spring," but the people got a taste of Islamic Sharia Law and overthrew the elected Muslim Brotherhood leadership and accepted another military coup in its place (that says something...)...

That was Morsi... He lasted a hair over a year...


This post was edited on 6/23/25 at 4:47 pm
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
41836 posts
Posted on 6/23/25 at 3:03 pm to
quote:

Which regime are you counting?


Every Egyptian regime that fought Israel.
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
41836 posts
Posted on 6/23/25 at 3:05 pm to
Egypt was allied with Russia and every war they fought against Israel, the Russians never came through.
Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
7699 posts
Posted on 6/23/25 at 3:06 pm to
quote:

China is playing a different game entirely because they know better.


My take is that China wants to conquer the West economically/technologically/intellectually... not militarily.

They want to be 1980s Japan on steroids.


Yep that is along the lines of what I was insinuating as well.

China knows that they can't put together any kind of coalition to beat the west militarily. They also are smart enough to know that they can 'win' without having to do that anyway, if they play their cards right.
Posted by Lee B
Member since Dec 2018
3499 posts
Posted on 6/23/25 at 3:36 pm to
quote:

Egypt was allied with Russia and every war they fought against Israel, the Russians never came through.


That's because there was always a weird relationship between the USSR and Israel... the USSR were the first ones to come across the Concentration Camps and liberate them, so Israel has been pretty sympathetic to the USSR and Russia as a result. That seems to have changed a bit very recently, though...
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
13942 posts
Posted on 6/23/25 at 4:07 pm to
quote:

That's because there was always a weird relationship between the USSR and Israel... the USSR were the first ones to come across the Concentration Camps and liberate them, so Israel has been pretty sympathetic to the USSR and Russia as a result. That seems to have changed a bit very recently, though...


A curious similarity with the drone workshops and launching in country recently. Both plannings are said to have started 18 months ago
Posted by Lee B
Member since Dec 2018
3499 posts
Posted on 6/23/25 at 4:44 pm to
If you remember, Russia was turning a blind eye and allowing Israel to bomb Syria, at least before it invaded Ukraine... then it started denouncing them but didn't try to stop them with its air defenses or planes.

And Israel refused to take a side in the Ukraine War at first...

COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Why Israel Has Been Slow to Support Ukraine
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
41836 posts
Posted on 6/23/25 at 5:18 pm to
quote:

That's because there was always a weird relationship between the USSR and Israel..


Only If you define weird as providing weapons, tanks and jets to the Syrians and Egyptians in large numbers.
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
5330 posts
Posted on 6/24/25 at 7:01 am to
Russia bombs Dnipro, hitting schools, hospital, and public transport

June 24, 2025, 06:03 AM





A Russian missile strike on the city of Dnipro and Oblast on June 24 killed at least nine people and injured nearly 70 others, including 10 children, regional authorities reported.

Explosions were heard in the city after air raid alerts and monitoring channels warned of incoming ballistic missiles.

The attack damaged civilian infrastructure across the city, including schools, hospitals, and public transport.

Serhiy Lysak, head of the Dnipropetrovsk Oblast Military Administration, confirmed the casualties and damage.

He noted that the number of casualties is still being updated, but credited shelters with saving dozens of lives.

“Many people in the strike zone were in shelters at the moment of impact. That saved lives,” he said.
Dnipro Mayor Borys Filatov said the missile strike damaged at least 19 schools, 10 kindergartens, a vocational school, a music school, three extracurricular education centers, and the city’s social welfare office.

Several healthcare facilities were also hit, including a hospital, outpatient clinics, and a dental clinic, the mayor added. Private homes and residential neighborhoods suffered significant damage.

Ukraine’s State Emergency Service (SES) reported that a fire broke out following the strike. A dormitory, a high school, and an administrative building were hit. A train was also damaged and several passengers were injured.

The New Voice Of Ukraine
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
5330 posts
Posted on 6/24/25 at 7:08 am to
Search and rescue operations completed at Russian strike site in Kyiv’s Shevchenkivskyi district

24.06.2025 09:00

Search and rescue operations have concluded at the site of a Russian missile strike in Kyiv’s Shevchenkivskyi district, where nine people were killed on June 23.

This was announced by Interior Minister Ihor Klymenko on Telegram, as reported by Ukrinform.

He noted that emergency and restoration efforts are ongoing at the missile strike site, where specialists are dismantling hazardous structures.

As previously reported by Ukrinform, the missile that struck a five-story residential building in Kyiv carried a high-explosive fragmentation warhead.

Ukrinform
Posted by AU86
Member since Aug 2009
26257 posts
Posted on 6/24/25 at 7:17 am to
Welcome.

Please come back.and post often.

Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
13942 posts
Posted on 6/24/25 at 7:30 am to
Likely Popped Riser has an alt.
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