- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 4/3/24 at 5:07 pm to CitizenK
Posted on 4/3/24 at 5:07 pm to CitizenK
quote:
That is the case with small nations. However, there are a number of them. Only one has expeditionary capability, France.
Germany isn’t a small country though. Poland to their credit have significantly ramped up in size and equipment.
Even though France has the expeditionary capability, their force in manpower is relatively small to Russia albeit much better trained and equipped. Also, to be fair, it would take QUITE a while to get to France. My point there is really France doesn’t have 100k+ men to send cross continent immediately either.
0
Posted on 4/3/24 at 5:14 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
That said, to keep giving at the level we have been or to increase it you MUST be convinced that Putin is a threat to NATO countries, and both myself and apparently our government doesn't see it that way.
In 1993 and in the wake of the collapse of the USSR, Ukraine became independent. I remember it well. There was a great deal of concern that some of the nuclear weapons in Ukraine's possession could fall into the wrong hands. Ukraine gave up those nukes in exchange for guarantees from the US, UK, Russia and others to secure their independence.
Yeah, if our guarantees are not worth the paper they are printed on, our word is nothing but falsehoods.
Posted on 4/3/24 at 5:17 pm to Auburn1968
quote:
Yeah, if our guarantees are not worth the paper they are printed on, our word is nothing but falsehoods.
So Ukrainian independence is worth US boots on the ground to you. Gotcha
Posted on 4/3/24 at 5:19 pm to WeeWee
quote:
quote:
Just another false premise.
If its false then we are just trying to bleed Russia dry, and using Ukrainian lives to do it.
Jake Sullivan pretty much said so when he said that US has been restricted Ukraine's use of western weapons since the start of the invasion.
The master minds of the Afghan disastrous withdrawal, do those kind of things.
Ukraine just want's its independence and it has a long history of animosity toward Moscow for damn good reason.
Posted on 4/3/24 at 5:24 pm to RuLSU
quote:
Ukraine used 152mm artillery platforms. NATO weapons (155mm caliber) only started coming in the summer of 2022.
155mm weapons have better accuracy/range than Russian artillery. Ukraine destroyed a ton of weapon systems with counter-battery fire in 2022/2023. Now that they're shell-starved, they're retreating.
It was dumb of the GOP to tie Ukraine aid to our open border disaster instead of tying it to nixing "continuing resolutions" until the border is shutdown. Ukraine aid is poor leverage for all the wrong reasons. Shutting down all of the non-essential parts of the bureaucratic behemoth would actually draw a line in the sand.
Posted on 4/3/24 at 5:26 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
quote:
Yeah, if our guarantees are not worth the paper they are printed on, our word is nothing but falsehoods.
So Ukrainian independence is worth US boots on the ground to you. Gotcha
That's a rather disingenuous presumption that is almost like a "bloodbath."
Posted on 4/3/24 at 5:29 pm to Auburn1968
That’s not a presumption, it’s the natural conclusion to that comment. If we let Ukraine fall without direct involvement, “our words are not worth the paper they are printed on”. I don’t see how anyone could logically argue otherwise.
Posted on 4/3/24 at 5:38 pm to DabosDynasty
I feel like nato was not created to hinge on our participation. Maybe I'm wrong. Just thought it was a group effort
This post was edited on 4/3/24 at 5:42 pm
Posted on 4/3/24 at 5:40 pm to Auburn1968
quote:You'd do better to understand either of the issues you're responding to ... either "bloodbath" or VolSquatch's post.
Yeah, if our guarantees are not worth the paper they are printed on, our word is nothing but falsehoods.
So Ukrainian independence is worth US boots on the ground to you. Gotcha
----------------
That's a rather disingenuous presumption that is almost like a "bloodbath."
You understand neither.
That's unfortunate, but not necessarily a problem.
But your intimation that you know WTF either addresses is an embarrassment.
Posted on 4/3/24 at 5:51 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
You'd do better to understand either of the issues you're responding to ... either "bloodbath" or VolSquatch's post.
You understand neither.
That's unfortunate, but not necessarily a problem.
But your intimation that you know WTF either addresses is an embarrassment.
That's a very muddled response and strange interpretation about something I didn't say or even imply. You are usually better than that.
Posted on 4/3/24 at 5:58 pm to ticklechain
quote:
I feel like nato was not created to hinge on our participation. Maybe I'm wrong.
Maybe I'm an old fart but "I feel like" posts always make me take the poster less seriously. NATO (all caps) was always going to hinge on US participation.
Posted on 4/3/24 at 5:58 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
That’s not a presumption, it’s the natural conclusion to that comment. If we let Ukraine fall without direct involvement, “our words are not worth the paper they are printed on”. I don’t see how anyone could logically argue otherwise.
You seem to see things as either black or white with no grays in-between.
By the way, we probably already have independent contractors on the ground in support, training and maintenance roles. That's a gray area.
This post was edited on 4/3/24 at 5:59 pm
Posted on 4/3/24 at 6:05 pm to Auburn1968
I just don’t care for these fence sitter types that don’t realize the ramifications of their positions, or where they lead to if you follow them to their logical conclusions. If you’re going to talk about security guarantees and “our word being meaningless” if we don’t help Ukraine, you can’t then go and act like just sending weapons is where that definitely ends.
Posted on 4/3/24 at 6:06 pm to ticklechain
quote:
feel like nato was not created to hinge on our participation. Maybe I'm wrong. Just thought it was a group effort
It was supposed to be. Membership is literally only a negative for us at this point
Posted on 4/3/24 at 6:15 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
I just don’t care for these fence sitter types that don’t realize the ramifications of their positions, or where they lead to if you follow them to their logical conclusions. If you’re going to talk about security guarantees and “our word being meaningless” if we don’t help Ukraine, you can’t then go and act like just sending weapons is where that definitely ends.
You seem way too sure of yourself to see anything other than black or white marching in lockstep.
Perhaps, Ukraine should have kept some of their nukes rather than accepting our promise. Of course, in my view, we should give them more than a trickle of arms to defend themselves with.
This post was edited on 4/3/24 at 6:18 pm
Posted on 4/3/24 at 6:16 pm to WeeWee
quote:
How is it that these tiny countries like Estonia and the Czech Republic can find 2 million shells to buy Ukraine in a matter of months? Also why weren't they doing it last year? Pay up Europe so that Ukraine can defend you from the big bad Russian bear.
Macron was demanding that all shells promised by the EU had to be made/come from the EU. Of course they could not produce anywhere near 1 million that were promised. He dropped that demand when the Czechs found the shells.
Posted on 4/3/24 at 6:20 pm to Auburn1968
quote:
You seem way too sure of yourself
Because im correct. Ukraine is not worth American lives and never will be regardless of what happens over there. Period. And I will call out anyone who would lead us toward that outcome, knowingly or otherwise.
Perhaps we and Ukraine are entirely different countries compared to what we were when those agreements were made. Perhaps promising anything to small, unstable, and historically corrupt countries is foolish. Perhaps.
Posted on 4/3/24 at 6:33 pm to VolSquatch
NATO Chief Urges 'Reliable' Ukraine Support as 100-Bn-Euro Fund Floated
Diplomats and officials have said that Stoltenberg has proposed creating a 100-billion-euro ($108 billion) fund to help arm Ukraine in its fight with Russia.
NATO chief Jens Stoltenberg said Wednesday that alliance members must guarantee long-term weapon deliveries for Ukraine, as ministers discussed a proposal for a 100-billion-euro, five-year fund.
"Ukraine has urgent needs," Stoltenberg said as NATO foreign ministers met in Brussels. "Any delay in providing support has consequences on the battlefield as we speak. So we need to shift the dynamics of our support."
"We must ensure reliable and predictable security assistance to Ukraine for the long haul so that we rely less on the voluntary contributions and more on NATO commitments, less on short-term offers and more on multi-year pledges."
Diplomats and officials have said that Stoltenberg has proposed creating a 100-billion-euro ($108 billion) fund to help arm Ukraine in its fight with Russia.
"Moscow needs to understand that they cannot achieve their goals on the battlefield and they cannot wait us out," Stoltenberg said, without giving details of his proposal.
Foreign ministers were to hold preliminary talks on the five-year plan during a two-day meeting as NATO pushes to forge a package of support for Ukraine by a July summit in Washington.
Diplomats caution that there are many questions on where financing would come from and that the proposal could change dramatically by the summit.
The plan from Stoltenberg would also see NATO taking more control of coordinating arms supplies to Kyiv from a US-led grouping that currently helps oversee support.
The Kyiv Post
Diplomats and officials have said that Stoltenberg has proposed creating a 100-billion-euro ($108 billion) fund to help arm Ukraine in its fight with Russia.
NATO chief Jens Stoltenberg said Wednesday that alliance members must guarantee long-term weapon deliveries for Ukraine, as ministers discussed a proposal for a 100-billion-euro, five-year fund.
"Ukraine has urgent needs," Stoltenberg said as NATO foreign ministers met in Brussels. "Any delay in providing support has consequences on the battlefield as we speak. So we need to shift the dynamics of our support."
"We must ensure reliable and predictable security assistance to Ukraine for the long haul so that we rely less on the voluntary contributions and more on NATO commitments, less on short-term offers and more on multi-year pledges."
Diplomats and officials have said that Stoltenberg has proposed creating a 100-billion-euro ($108 billion) fund to help arm Ukraine in its fight with Russia.
"Moscow needs to understand that they cannot achieve their goals on the battlefield and they cannot wait us out," Stoltenberg said, without giving details of his proposal.
Foreign ministers were to hold preliminary talks on the five-year plan during a two-day meeting as NATO pushes to forge a package of support for Ukraine by a July summit in Washington.
Diplomats caution that there are many questions on where financing would come from and that the proposal could change dramatically by the summit.
The plan from Stoltenberg would also see NATO taking more control of coordinating arms supplies to Kyiv from a US-led grouping that currently helps oversee support.
The Kyiv Post
Posted on 4/3/24 at 6:36 pm to cypher
White House urges Speaker to bring Ukraine aid bill to floor
Tetyana Oliynyk — Wednesday, 3 April 2024, 23:32
The White House has urged US House of Representatives Speaker Mike Johnson to bring a Senate-approved bill supporting Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan to the floor instead of introducing other proposals.
Source: Ukrinform citing White House spokesperson Karine Jean-Pierre
Quote: "House Republicans should pass the bipartisan national security agreement that already passed with overwhelming support out of the Senate – 70 to 29.
There is a way to get Ukraine what they need. All the Speaker has to do is put that national security supplemental on the floor."
Tetyana Oliynyk — Wednesday, 3 April 2024, 23:32
The White House has urged US House of Representatives Speaker Mike Johnson to bring a Senate-approved bill supporting Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan to the floor instead of introducing other proposals.
Source: Ukrinform citing White House spokesperson Karine Jean-Pierre
Quote: "House Republicans should pass the bipartisan national security agreement that already passed with overwhelming support out of the Senate – 70 to 29.
There is a way to get Ukraine what they need. All the Speaker has to do is put that national security supplemental on the floor."
Posted on 4/3/24 at 6:44 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
Now that they're shell-starved, they're retreating.
Even when they had 155mm shells they couldn't ever make the type of gains Russia is making now.
WTF are you talking about?
quote:
On Saturday, the Russian army launched what may have been one of the largest-scale tank assaults of Russia’s 25-month wider war on Ukraine.
It ended in one of the largest-scale tank massacres of Russia’s 25-month wider war on Ukraine. When the smoke cleared, the Russians had left behind—on a road west of the ruins of Avdiivka in eastern Ukraine—a third of their tanks.
quote:LINK
Thirty-six tanks and 12 BMP fighting vehicles from the Russian army’s 6th Tank Regiment—part of the 90th Tank Division—attacked along a road threading from Russian-occupied Tonen’ke toward the free village of Uman’ske, two miles to the west.
The Ukrainian 25th Brigade spotted the 48-vehicle column—and hit it hard. “Twelve tanks and eight BMPs were taken out,” wrote “Kriegsforscher,” a drone-operator with the Ukrainian 36th Marine Brigade. “Pure madness.”
Russia got its arse handed to it over the weekend and it did not make any gains at all.
Page 3655 of 5046
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News