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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 3/7/23 at 10:28 pm to GOP_Tiger
Posted on 3/7/23 at 10:28 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
With Javelins, we mostly gave Ukraine the old ones that were due to expire and have now ordered new ones for ourselves.
Those javelins would have been used for training. It’s not like we were just gonna throw them away. That goes for nearly every piece of expendable ammunition the military uses.
quote:
Yes, we are purchasing some new things from American manufacturers to send to Ukraine. We are buying a number of different drones, for example, which allows the Pentagon to see exactly how they perform in battle. But besides the tremendous benefits in our understanding of modern warfighting, every purchase supports American industry and American jobs. And if you want to strictly look at the war from a financial point of view, it's been highly beneficial to the US. Our LNG supplied much of Europe this winter. Farmers like my dad have made much greater profits on high grain prices. American weapons manufacturers are awash in orders for new equipment from around the globe. Here's a billion-dollar order that happened today.
See now you’re making your argument without being disingenuous. There are arguments to be made against what you’re saying but this isn’t the thread for that.
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Posted on 3/7/23 at 10:28 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
Also disingenuous, yeah they are getting some old shite but they’re also getting plenty of brand new shite like HIMARs, SDBs, JDAMs, Javelins and TOWs.
These weapons systems (along with anything else in the US Army) were designed specifically for force projection against Soviet/Russian forces. You were never going to see a Javelin defend US soil - tanks aren't rolling in from Canada or Mexico anytime soon, and good luck with the logistics of planning an amphibious attack on the USA.
My POV is these weapons are doing what they've always done, what they were designed to do, and against the opponent they were designed for - but this time it's not our kids firing them.
About the first weapon in discussion that would ever have been used to directly protect American soil is the F-16. However, this is the 4th best fighter in our inventory (F-22, F-15, F-35 ahead of them), and already a heavily exported platform (introduced in 1978 and with 25 foreign users) and is being phased out for the F-35 on our shores anyway. It also appears that any F-16 delivery would be nearly 1:1 replaced with an F-35 sale.
Longer term, if foreign sales of US weapons products improves, the increase in manufacturing capacity to handle sales only improves our defense capability going forward, while simultaneously benefitting the US economy.
Posted on 3/7/23 at 10:33 pm to BRIllini07
quote:
These weapons systems (along with anything else in the US Army) were designed specifically for force projection against Soviet/Russian forces. You were never going to see a Javelin defend US soil - tanks aren't rolling in from Canada or Mexico anytime soon, and good luck with the logistics of planning an amphibious attack on the USA.
I’m not sure why you’re bringing up defense of American soil here. I never made the argument that they should be saved for the day that enemy tanks rolling in from Canada.
And just for the record the SDB was designed specifically for the war on terror to minimize collateral damage because you don’t need at 1000lb bomb to kill a couple Iraqis planting an ied.
quote:
My POV is these weapons are doing what they've always done, what they were designed to do, and against the opponent they were designed for - but this time it's not our kids firing them. About the first weapon in discussion that would ever have been used to directly protect American soil is the F-16. However, this is the 4th best fighter in our inventory (F-22, F-15, F-35 ahead of them), and already a heavily exported platform (introduced in 1978 and with 25 foreign users) and is being phased out for the F-35 on our shores anyway. It also appears that any F-16 delivery would be nearly 1:1 replaced with an F-35 sale. Longer term, if foreign sales of US weapons products improves, the increase in manufacturing capacity to handle sales only improves our defense capability going forward, while simultaneously benefitting the US economy.
I’m not sure who you’re trying to argue with here.
Posted on 3/7/23 at 10:34 pm to momentoftruth87
And we spent 20 years in afg. I’m an afg vet btw….
Afg is I think where the problem is, especially 20 years of it. Ukraine to me is a bit more clear cut (to me) than our 2 decades of shennanigans in the Middle East.
Afg is I think where the problem is, especially 20 years of it. Ukraine to me is a bit more clear cut (to me) than our 2 decades of shennanigans in the Middle East.
Posted on 3/7/23 at 10:37 pm to BRIllini07
Did you think we’d be in for 20 years at the 2 year mark? Didn’t think so.
Posted on 3/7/23 at 10:40 pm to momentoftruth87
quote:
Did you think we’d be in for 20 years at the 2 year mark? Didn’t think so.
We’re not in Ukraine…yet. If you start seeing US SOF troops as “advisors” or “observers” then it’s time to worry.
Posted on 3/7/23 at 10:40 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
I’m not sure who you’re trying to argue with here.
Just debating.
And honestly thanks for offering a view that's in conflict with most posters on this thread, that is at least thought out and not a 1-line shot across the bow with no substance. It's good to at least have some honest disagreement in here!
Posted on 3/7/23 at 10:44 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
We are next door in neighboring nato countries and having Ukrainians trained in us and by us. So what’s the difference?
Posted on 3/7/23 at 10:45 pm to momentoftruth87
quote:
We are next door in neighboring nato countries and having Ukrainians trained in us and by us. So what’s the difference?
Cmon man. You know the difference.
Posted on 3/7/23 at 10:45 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
Difference of some aid or billions in tax payer money along with weapon platforms?
Posted on 3/7/23 at 10:46 pm to momentoftruth87
The American military is not engaged in combat operations in Ukraine
Posted on 3/7/23 at 10:46 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
Lol if you believe that…
Posted on 3/7/23 at 10:49 pm to momentoftruth87
I do.
Are there some agency operators running around? Possibly
Are there US generals in an official or unofficial capacity providing tactical assistance to Ukraine via emails and telephone calls with a lot of intel sharing? Absolutely.
Are there US combat troops in Ukraine? No
Are there some agency operators running around? Possibly
Are there US generals in an official or unofficial capacity providing tactical assistance to Ukraine via emails and telephone calls with a lot of intel sharing? Absolutely.
Are there US combat troops in Ukraine? No
Posted on 3/7/23 at 10:56 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
But also because Ukraine isn't asking you or me to fight.
Disingenuous at best
Posted on 3/7/23 at 10:58 pm to momentoftruth87
You must have been deployed to Helmand Province.
Posted on 3/7/23 at 10:58 pm to momentoftruth87
quote:
Or they’re using old inventory and not prime troops as they capture Ukraine.
They've already lost their prime equipment. Their brand new equipment which was supposed to be produced in numbers doesn't work so only a few made. This is all with geotags and crosschecked by independent sources.
What Russia does have in numbers that could overwhelm but then Putin would lose favor at home.
BTW, Russia is selling its crude oil at near cost to produce and has been doing so since early last Summer. It refined product sales never recovered from the Covid lockdowns and exports are down to 1/3 what they were in 2021. There is only one pissant natural gas pipeline to China and it will take years to build another with all their pipelines going to Europe except that one. They have two small LNG terminals, one for smaller shuttle LNG tankers to haul to China. Their auto industry consists of imports from China and Russian cars made in China with the wheels put on after arriving in Russia. Their economy is in the shitter bigtime.
Posted on 3/7/23 at 11:01 pm to momentoftruth87
The IMF gets all of its figures from the Russian government. They are made up numbers. Something like half the Russian populace has defaulted on loans. Hell, the lost easily 1 million engineers, doctors, and other professionals who left the country. Kazakhstan alone officially gained over 406,000 Russian immigrants in less than a week.
Your info sources suck donkey balls.
Your info sources suck donkey balls.
Posted on 3/7/23 at 11:03 pm to momentoftruth87
You do realize that this comedy show had more Russian viewers than Ukrainians, and was sold to a Russian company for syndication.
Posted on 3/7/23 at 11:06 pm to BRIllini07
quote:
These weapons systems (along with anything else in the US Army) were designed specifically for force projection against Soviet/Russian forces.
Even HIMARS program was an anti Soviet thing in 1989 when it began. I guess the old Davy Crocketts are all gone now
Posted on 3/7/23 at 11:09 pm to CitizenK
quote:
Even HIMARS program was an anti Soviet thing in 1989 when it began. I guess the old Davy Crocketts are all gone now
This is like the 10th time in this thread you’ve claimed that HIMARS is an old weapon system from the Cold War. It’s not, never has been, never will be. It a relatively very new system. The only thing that connects it to the Cold War is the vehicle that carries it around the battlefield.
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