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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 12/9/22 at 1:18 pm to
Posted by WestCoastAg
Member since Oct 2012
150170 posts
Posted on 12/9/22 at 1:18 pm to
Sounds about right
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
15773 posts
Posted on 12/9/22 at 1:29 pm to
Finland and the Netherlands beat Germany to the punch and paid less for their FSRU's chartering them months before Germany. They are used elsewhere in the world and have been for years, as a stop gap or temporary measure until less expensive terminal with vaporization is built on land.
Posted by Burhead
Member since Dec 2014
2100 posts
Posted on 12/9/22 at 1:52 pm to
Over the last few days Kosovo has deployed special police units into the Serb majority North Kosovo. Last night a police patrol was attacked with "long guns" injuring a police officer. Now Vucic is having meetings with his government with threats of deploying Serbian security forces into Northern Kosovo. I just wonder how much of this is being egged on by Russia to draw Western eyes away from Ukraine?
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
15773 posts
Posted on 12/9/22 at 2:08 pm to
quote:

I just wonder how much of this is being egged on by Russia to draw Western eyes away from Ukraine?


Likely 100% Russia aided and funded. One of the pet peeves of Putin is how everything went down regarding Milosevic and Serbia when Russia was too weak to do anything
Posted by Lakeboy7
New Orleans
Member since Jul 2011
28324 posts
Posted on 12/9/22 at 2:10 pm to
quote:

Is this an escalation?


Absolutely.

If you notice everything incremental and drawn out over time.

"No you cant have HIMARS its an offensive system", well they have them and more are inbound.

"You cant have ATACTMS, you cant have tanks, planes. Just watch and see what they have come spring.

I suspect the Russian have been told to lay off the infrastructure or the really cool shite will start showing up on the battelfield.
This post was edited on 12/9/22 at 2:14 pm
Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
45582 posts
Posted on 12/9/22 at 2:56 pm to
quote:

I’m ashamed to call myself an American this morning and that hurts. You just traded the merchant of death for a law breaking, America hating liberal while leaving the real American deserving to go home still sitting g in a Russian prison. So all you have to do today is say how much you hate America and how racist it is and you are a hero I guess. I’m just beyond tired of this. This shouldn’t be political this should just be common sense and our current President just proved he has none. I don’t want to hear one more time how Trump was a Putin lover when Biden just agreed to this bullshite deal.



We traded a convicted arms dealer for a basketball player. No wonder Putin thinks that the Biden administration is weak.
Posted by Lakeboy7
New Orleans
Member since Jul 2011
28324 posts
Posted on 12/9/22 at 3:03 pm to
quote:

No wonder Putin thinks that the Biden administration is weak.



Do you seriously believe this? Who was the one person in the world that said "no" when Vlad invaded?

Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
45582 posts
Posted on 12/9/22 at 3:08 pm to
quote:

Finland and the Netherlands beat Germany to the punch and paid less for their FSRU's chartering them months before Germany. They are used elsewhere in the world and have been for years, as a stop gap or temporary measure until less expensive terminal with vaporization is built on land.



The article was talking about the onshore aspects of the LNG facility like the pipeline needed to connect the LNG dock to gas grid. Something that would have normally taken 5 years instead took less 1 year because they used common sense.
Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
45582 posts
Posted on 12/9/22 at 3:21 pm to
quote:

No wonder Putin thinks that the Biden administration is weak.


Do you seriously believe this?


Yes I seriously believe that the midget in the Kremlin thinks that the Biden administration is weak. I never said Putin's thoughts were based in reality. Almost all the geopolitical "experts" in the media and social media agree that Putin made up his mind that the Biden administration was weak when the Taliban retook Afghanistan. If you watch at Russian propaganda (or read the PT board) you will see that the Kremlin they have come to respect our technology but they do not respect our leaders. They believe that a winter of high energy prices will cause the USA and Europe to abandon their support of Ukraine or at least force Ukraine to the negotiating table. Russian propaganda shows openly admit that negotiations are just a way to stall for time for them to increase the size of their military. Since Russian state media is controlled by the Kremlin they are obviously reporting the views of the leadership in the Kremlin (aka Putin) and they would not be doing that if the Kremlin did not think that the leaders of the USA and NATO are weak enough to seek peace at any cost and dumb enough to believe Russia. Again I am not saying that the Putin's views are based in reality because the Putin is obviously delusional, but I am saying that is what the midget in the Kremlin thinks.

quote:

Who was the one person in the world that said "no" when Vlad invaded?


Zelensky and 40 million or so Ukrainians
This post was edited on 12/9/22 at 3:23 pm
Posted by TBoy
Kalamazoo
Member since Dec 2007
28603 posts
Posted on 12/9/22 at 3:26 pm to
quote:

No wonder Putin thinks that the Biden administration is weak.

That's an interesting comment considering that the Russian propaganda slant for months is that they are losing on the battlefield because Ukraine is being aided by America and that's why the Ukrainian military is so strong. "American weakness" has not been a feature of Russian propaganda at all during this war.

You should consider that the Russians made the decision who they would trade. We have offered to trade the arms dealer for Paul Whelan several times (according to Whelan's brother) but the Russians didn't agree to the trade. The Russians agreed to trade the former arms dealer for Griner. The Biden administration did the deal to take what they could get, and bring at least one of the Americans home. Paul Whelan's brother has spoken publicly that they are disappointed that the Russians wouldn't agree to release Whelan and they also stated that it was absolutely appropriate to trade for Griner.

At the same time that the Russians agreed to the trade, they went on a propaganda blitz criticizing the US for trading for Griner but not Whelan, as if that was our choice. The target audience for the propaganda was the American right wing, which picked it up and ran with it. Right wing speakers are directly parroting the Russian propaganda line without any apparent awareness or care that they are being used by Russia against America.

May I suggest that if any part of this situation actually gets you riled up, that you take a step back and look again with an objective eye. The Russians are hostage takers. They have elected to hold Whelan for a subsequent trade. But it is America's duty to try to bring everyone home, even a bone-headed person like Griner.
Posted by Lakeboy7
New Orleans
Member since Jul 2011
28324 posts
Posted on 12/9/22 at 3:30 pm to
No one person on planet has fricked Putin and Russia harder than Biden. The tab at the end of the day for Russia will be hundreds of billions, isolation, irrelevancy. It has cost Putin status and wealth and hopefully his life.

Did Putin believe Biden (and the US) was weak in Feb 2022, absolutely, I doubt he believes that now.

Posted by TigerDoc
Texas
Member since Apr 2004
11880 posts
Posted on 12/9/22 at 3:43 pm to
This post is right on. We should be clear-eyed about how Putin is using prisoner exchange policy as tool of propaganda to serve as a wedge in American politics, particularly with regard to breaking up relatively unified support for Ukraine. The disagreements between posters in this thread are a microcosm of the effect that Putin is looking for and we shouldn't be surprised to see the usual sort of trolls amplifying the culture-war inflaming messaging.
This post was edited on 12/9/22 at 3:45 pm
Posted by Lakeboy7
New Orleans
Member since Jul 2011
28324 posts
Posted on 12/9/22 at 3:51 pm to
quote:

amplifying the culture-war inflaming messaging.


The reality is we will get one more significant appropriation before America moves on.

The good news is that should be plenty to break the Russians and the Europeans seem to be coming around to the reality they are going to have to step up funding.
Posted by LSUPilot07
Member since Feb 2022
8619 posts
Posted on 12/9/22 at 3:54 pm to
The US has agreed with Germany to send Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine as well as 18 RCH 155 self propelled howitzers. Depending on how many are actually sent Leopard 2 tanks would be a massive get for Ukraine. They were clearly the best option to send over the Abrams because the Leopard runs on a diesel engine that Ukrainian mechanics would be better equipped to work on rather than the turbine engines that are in our Abrams tanks.
Posted by Kentucker
Rabbit Hash, KY
Member since Apr 2013
20055 posts
Posted on 12/9/22 at 6:04 pm to
quote:

suspect the Russian have been told to lay off the infrastructure or the really cool shite will start showing up on the battelfield.


The brutality and the persistence of the missile and drone attacks on Ukraine’s civilian infrastructure seems to finally have passed Biden’s tolerance.

I hope that he and the Pentagon will let Ukraine take the war to Russia. I think Russia’s elite will quickly move for an end to the war if it appears to them that their Russian assets might be in danger.
Posted by Highthoughts
Member since Sep 2022
313 posts
Posted on 12/9/22 at 6:11 pm to
If this is the route you are going to take (blaming the right for parroting Russian propaganda in this trade instance), then you have to also place some blame on Griner.

This would not look so bad if Griner did not take her anti America stances which were also assuredly bits from Russian cointel propaganda.

It’s good to bring an American citizen home but the “bad look” phenomenon has plenty of blame to go around.
This post was edited on 12/9/22 at 6:12 pm
Posted by TBoy
Kalamazoo
Member since Dec 2007
28603 posts
Posted on 12/9/22 at 6:29 pm to
quote:

If this is the route you are going to take (blaming the right for parroting Russian propaganda in this trade instance), then you have to also place some blame on Griner. This would not look so bad if Griner did not take her anti America stances which were also assuredly bits from Russian cointel propaganda. It’s good to bring an American citizen home but the “bad look” phenomenon has plenty of blame to go around.


Griner is an idiot. She thought that because she was an athlete, she could travel around with illegal drugs in her luggage and there would be no risk. It’s her own fault that she was in this situation.

I don’t know enough about Whelan to know why he was arrested. Wikipedia describes him as a “security consultant” prior to his arrest in Russia. I don’t know what the hell that means, but it sounds like he was involved in some sketchy stuf himself.

But America has a duty to try to bring them home, not as a reward for good behavior, but because they are Americans and they are being held by Russia as basically hostages.

Sure, Griner is responsible getting herself into that situation. Perhaps Whelan was too. But don’t lose sight of the fact that the party who decides who gets to come home and who does not is Russia. I won’t accept Russia, the hostage holder, or the American right, criticizing America based on who Russia decides to release. That’s fricking lunacy and it’s offensive to me.
This post was edited on 12/9/22 at 6:33 pm
Posted by Highthoughts
Member since Sep 2022
313 posts
Posted on 12/9/22 at 6:54 pm to
The only reason this opportunity for Russia exists is because they won the information war on the front end with the left- BLM. Don’t lose sight of that either.
Posted by TBoy
Kalamazoo
Member since Dec 2007
28603 posts
Posted on 12/9/22 at 7:00 pm to
quote:

The only reason this opportunity for Russia exists is because they won the information war on the front end with the left- BLM. Don’t lose sight of that either.

The use of the word “won” is too strong. Russians have used BLM as a wedge issue in America for sure. But they haven’t “won the information war.” In fact, I’d be willing to bet that Russia is generally seen in America as evil and weak, not because of propaganda really, but because the descriptions appear accurate.
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
15773 posts
Posted on 12/9/22 at 7:14 pm to
quote:

No one person on planet has fricked Putin and Russia harder than Biden. The tab at the end of the day for Russia will be hundreds of billions, isolation, irrelevancy. It has cost Putin status and wealth and hopefully his life.

Did Putin believe Biden (and the US) was weak in Feb 2022, absolutely, I doubt he believes that now.


Why wouldn't Putin/Kremlin conclude that Biden was weak. He was VP in the Obama Whitehouse which did next to nothing in 2014. Now the kicker which Putin/Kremlin didn't consider and Biden's advisors seem to have understood. Mid term election year, part of the reason for the great success of the GOP was Obama's inaction. 19 seat gain in the House (which the GOP already held) and a 9 seat gain, most ever in almost 35 years by any party, which allowed the GOP to take control of the Senate.

When Ukraine resisted the takeover with a what actually amounted to a handful of soldiers near Kyiv and thousands of armed civilians. The writing was on the wall that Biden had to back Ukraine or lose a ton of seats in both chambers
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