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Started By
Message
re: Justice Department: States Should Not Jail Poor People Over Fine Nonpayment
Posted on 3/14/16 at 11:59 am to TJGator1215
Posted on 3/14/16 at 11:59 am to TJGator1215
quote:
Nothing like state sanctioned slavery.
It's pretty much the argument. And for everyone saying just make them do public work for free, just realize you're putting people to hard labor over misdemeanors, and the municipalities will make sure they tack on every charge to up the amount. They are doing it here.
This post was edited on 3/14/16 at 12:00 pm
1
Posted on 3/14/16 at 11:59 am to slackster
quote:
The people that aren't paying now end up costing the government significantly more in administrative costs by dragging it out in court and housing costs by spending time in jail.
Let's just think about the actual court costs associated with this. It probable takes what, 10 minutes or court time to hit $200 after paying the Judge, minute clerk, court reporter, bailiff, and law clerk?
Posted on 3/14/16 at 12:00 pm to slackster
Tell the Justice Dept to piss off. This is none of their communist business. If a local department wants to put someone in their own jail for not paying a fine then let them.
Posted on 3/14/16 at 12:04 pm to SabiDojo
quote:
And for everyone saying just make them do public work for free, just realize you're putting people to hard labor over misdemeanors
True.
I once had a speeding ticket that was going to get "fixed" by the DA in the city court of some Podunk town in LA. The fine would have been $220, but instead I was sent a certified letter from the city court saying the ticket had been expunged from my record but in return I had to do 20 hours of community service in the next 6 weeks or it would be escalated to something more severe. I couldn't believe it. I would have paid twice the normal fine in lieu of the community service.
Posted on 3/14/16 at 12:10 pm to trom83
I agree. To someone making our deplorable minimum wage of $7.25, a $250 fine is 34.4 hours of work. To our corporate fat cats, it is an hour or two of work. We disproportionately fine our lower and lower middle classes.
Can't pay a ticket? Lose your license even though you cannot afford to pay.
Can't pay a ticket? Lose your license even though you cannot afford to pay.
Posted on 3/14/16 at 12:13 pm to trom83
So what are the standards for determining who is poor and gets to be a scofflaw and who is rich and gets put in the pokey to financially support the state police apparatus?
Posted on 3/14/16 at 12:14 pm to Pax Regis
If the rich and wealthy paid fair taxes, maybe the cities wouldn't have to rely on fining people who have little or no money.
Posted on 3/14/16 at 12:15 pm to Pax Regis
With all of this ridiculous hyperbole, do we have any local, state or federal statistics on what % of incarcerated people are inarcerated based on their inability and/or refusal to pay their fines?
I'd love to see proof or scope of the problem before we spent 5 more pages arguing the merits and potential solutions.
I'd love to see proof or scope of the problem before we spent 5 more pages arguing the merits and potential solutions.
Posted on 3/14/16 at 12:16 pm to yoga girl
You disregarded the question. How do you fairly decide who has to pay under penalty of incarceration and who gets to laugh their arse off as they head to the next payday loan outlet?
Posted on 3/14/16 at 12:20 pm to yoga girl
quote:
If the rich and wealthy paid fair taxes
So those who pay 90% of the tax burden aren't paying their fair share while those who pay nothing are?
Posted on 3/14/16 at 12:20 pm to Pax Regis
quote:
You disregarded the question. How do you fairly decide who has to pay under penalty of incarceration and who gets to laugh their arse off as they head to the next payday loan outlet?
Those who have no income should have to do community service. Picking up litter would be a start.
After that, fine based on income. A fine for traffic offenses should never exceed one day's pay - 58 for someone at minimum wage. We need flexible fines like this based on income, with a cap.
For misdemeanors, up to five days income. $290 for a minimum wage person. $1200 top for someone making $30 per hour.
Why should fines fall more greatly and disproportionately on the poor and lower incomes?
Posted on 3/14/16 at 12:20 pm to yoga girl
quote:
If the rich and wealthy paid fair taxes
To the true believer (such as yourself) they'll never pay their "fair share."
Posted on 3/14/16 at 12:21 pm to CajunAlum Tiger Fan
quote:But my reasoning is that if you don't enforce the fine a larger number of people would not pay it creating a larger loss.
That revenue is already lost in this case, so why compound it with jail time which adds more cost?
Posted on 3/14/16 at 12:21 pm to crap4brain
quote:
So those who pay 90% of the tax burden aren't paying their fair share while those who pay nothing are?
That is such a tired argument: They make 99% of the income, so they should (but don't) pay 99% of the taxes.
Posted on 3/14/16 at 12:24 pm to yoga girl
quote:
Why should fines fall more greatly and disproportionately on the poor and lower incomes?
B/C the nature of the offense doesn't change based on your income. Nor should it.
Where does that subsidization end with regard to the spectrum of crimes?
Are misdemeanor fines allocated according to income, but felony fines are all the same? Does your white, middle class stalker pay more in fines and court cost than your white, trailer park stalker? Does a piss poor sexual assault offender pay less in fines than the wealthy red-light runner simply b/c of their income?
This post was edited on 3/14/16 at 12:27 pm
Posted on 3/14/16 at 12:24 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
To the true believer (such as yourself) they'll never pay their "fair share."
No, they can pay their fair share, but right now the lower income groups take a beating. They pay a disproportionate share of social security taxes, sales taxes, etc. SS tax is very regressive, so there should be NO cap on it.
The highest groups should have a 70 to 80% income tax rate.
Posted on 3/14/16 at 12:27 pm to MSMHater
quote:
B/C the nature of the offense doesn't change based on your income. Nor should it.
Where does that subsidization end with regard to the spectrum of crimes?
Are misdemeanor fines allocated according to income, but felony fines are all the same? Does your white, middle class stalker pay more in fines and court cost than your white, trailer park stalker?
Wow, that's wrong. The nature may not change, but the punishment sure does. $200 is about 6/1000 of someone's income, but it is 27 hours pay to someone at minimum wage. Why should I get a light punishment, so to speak?
This post was edited on 3/14/16 at 12:29 pm
Posted on 3/14/16 at 12:27 pm to yoga girl
quote:
That is such a tired argument: They make 99% of the income, so they should (but don't) pay 99% of the taxes
Thats not true, but even if it was, then by your argument shouldn't the people making the 1% pay 1% of the taxes instead of none (%45 of US citizens pay no taxes.)
Posted on 3/14/16 at 12:28 pm to crap4brain
quote:
Thats not true, but even if it was, then by your argument shouldn't the people making the 1% pay 1% of the taxes instead of none (%45 of US citizens pay no taxes.)
We don't tax by the % in the population (1%), but rather by their percentage of income (99%).
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