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June 5, 1942: Midway, Part 1 - Clash of the Titans
Posted on 6/5/21 at 12:58 pm
Posted on 6/5/21 at 12:58 pm
quote:
The supposedly surprise Japanese operations against Midway Atoll and the Aleutian Islands kick-off, but they don't know that Allied intelligence has cracked their codes. As the Japanese fleet advances in the Central Pacific and Japanese planes bomb Midway, the US Navy has a big surprise waiting for them.
YouTube - World War Two
6
Posted on 6/5/21 at 1:04 pm to RollTide1987
Question, after the Americans caught the Japs by surprise and ambushed them at Midway, did the Japanese realize we were reading their mail?,
Posted on 6/5/21 at 1:32 pm to doubleb
quote:
doubleb
No, and neither did the Germans. The allies were always careful to make it appear as if they were in the area for unrelated reasons.
The Germans may have caught on the first time the allies broke it, and changed their code. Then the allies broke it again, and the Germans falsely believed they were safe.
Posted on 6/5/21 at 1:38 pm to doubleb
quote:Nope. That fact got Yamamoto killed.
Question, after the Americans caught the Japs by surprise and ambushed them at Midway, did the Japanese realize we were reading their mail?,
Posted on 6/5/21 at 1:39 pm to MaroonMonsoon
I just finished reading a man called Intrepid, referring to the British Canadian who ran the covert Allied operations during the war. This private citizen smelled what was coming, got wind of the new secret code machine, Enigma, and actually managed to smuggle a copy out of Germany before the war. It came in many iterations and the Allies were always playing catch-up as the codes evolved, but they were never far behind.
The most difficult time they had I was using the information they obtained without revealing the degree to which they had Insider info.
The classic example is the bombing of Coventry, and Churchill's emotionally difficult decision not to warn anyone.
Excellent book that is an easy read.
The most difficult time they had I was using the information they obtained without revealing the degree to which they had Insider info.
The classic example is the bombing of Coventry, and Churchill's emotionally difficult decision not to warn anyone.
Excellent book that is an easy read.
Posted on 6/5/21 at 1:42 pm to luvdoc
The bombing went on for 13 hours during the night. In total, 30,000 incendiaries along with 500 tons of high explosive bombs. In one night, more than 4,300 homes in Coventry were destroyed and around two-thirds of the city's buildings were damaged
Posted on 6/5/21 at 1:55 pm to luvdoc
The story that Churchill knew that Coventry was to be bombed and took no steps to protect it rather than risk Enigma decrypts disclosure is not true. Read Sir Martin Gilbert’s account, among others.
Posted on 6/5/21 at 2:13 pm to beachdude
I know there has been some dispute over this point, but Intrepid, Sir William Stephenson, States quite forthrightly in the book that " the name of the target was in Churchill's hands within minutes of Hitler's decision. The fuhrer meant to annihilate non-military Targets in his attempt to crush a civilian resistance."
I am by no means an historian, and stake no personal strongly held belief in the matter, but even if this particular incident is not accurate oh, it is reflective of brother genuine conflicts amongst the British leadership regarding the need for secrecy
I am by no means an historian, and stake no personal strongly held belief in the matter, but even if this particular incident is not accurate oh, it is reflective of brother genuine conflicts amongst the British leadership regarding the need for secrecy
Posted on 6/5/21 at 2:23 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Nope. That fact got Yamamoto killed.
True
You would have thought that the Japs would have wondered how three American carriers happened to be where they were precisely when the Jap armada was attacking an atoll in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. That and the big resistance from land based planes of all kinds.
Posted on 6/5/21 at 2:49 pm to RollTide1987
Using the fake emergency radio message about Midway's water system being down to get Japan to confirm that "AF" was code for Midway was a stroke of genius.
It is impossible to overstate the importance of Midway. If we had lost Midway, the Japs would have run unchecked through the Pacific for at least another year. After Midway, the Japs no longer had the ability to wage offensive warfare.
It is impossible to overstate the importance of Midway. If we had lost Midway, the Japs would have run unchecked through the Pacific for at least another year. After Midway, the Japs no longer had the ability to wage offensive warfare.
Posted on 6/5/21 at 3:20 pm to VADawg
quote:
It is impossible to overstate the importance of Midway.
Probably the most important battle of the entire war behind stalingrad
Posted on 6/5/21 at 4:58 pm to Mstate
quote:
Probably the most important battle of the entire war behind stalingrad
Not sure why this got a downvote. Stalingrad, Midway, and the Battle of Britain are the three most tide changing battles of the war, IMO.
Posted on 6/5/21 at 5:12 pm to RollTide1987
The thing about this battle is that it occurred only six months into the war. The American victory sealed the fate of Japan. It was a done deal.
Posted on 6/5/21 at 5:19 pm to doubleb
quote:
You would have thought that the Japs would have wondered how three American carriers happened to be where they were precisely when the Jap armada was attacking an atoll in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. That and the big resistance from land based planes of all kinds.
Narcissism and the belief in ultimate racial and intellectual superiority will do that to you. I believe there was a high-ranking officer in the IJN who, after the Coral Sea, aired his suspicions that their codes were compromised. He was relieved and reassigned.
Posted on 6/5/21 at 11:03 pm to RollTide1987
WRONG DATE
The main action at the Battle of Midway occurred on June 4, not June 5. There's a big chart of June 4 plus a writeup at Wikipedia.
Arguably the most decisive moment in all of World War II was from about 10:25 to 10:31 a.m. on June 4, 1942, during which U.S. Navy dive-bombers got the hits that sank three of the four Japanese carriers in that group. The fourth Japanese carrier in that group got its fatal hit later on June 4. By the end of that day, two Japanese carriers had sunk and the other two were doomed (sinking early on June 5 from the bomb hits delivered on June 4).
The main action at the Battle of Midway occurred on June 4, not June 5. There's a big chart of June 4 plus a writeup at Wikipedia.
Arguably the most decisive moment in all of World War II was from about 10:25 to 10:31 a.m. on June 4, 1942, during which U.S. Navy dive-bombers got the hits that sank three of the four Japanese carriers in that group. The fourth Japanese carrier in that group got its fatal hit later on June 4. By the end of that day, two Japanese carriers had sunk and the other two were doomed (sinking early on June 5 from the bomb hits delivered on June 4).
Posted on 6/5/21 at 11:30 pm to RollTide1987
Posted on 6/6/21 at 10:54 am to RollTide1987
quote:
Narcissism and the belief in ultimate racial and intellectual superiority will do that to you. I believe there was a high-ranking officer in the IJN who, after the Coral Sea, aired his suspicions that their codes were compromised. He was relieved and reassigned.
It’s funny how that works. We thought the Japs were inferior people. We didn’t give them much credit and some of that type thinking missed Pearl Harbor.
Posted on 6/6/21 at 11:11 am to NOLATiger163
quote:
WRONG DATE
The main action at the Battle of Midway occurred on June 4, not June 5. There's a big chart of June 4 plus a writeup at Wikipedia.
You are obviously not familiar with the YouTube web series World War Two in Real Time. They release a new video every Saturday covering the events of the war over the course of that week. So the video entitled June 5, 1942: Midway, Part 1 - Clash of the Titans covers the events of that war from May 30, 1942 - June 5, 1942.
This post was edited on 6/6/21 at 11:12 am
Posted on 6/6/21 at 12:15 pm to Mstate
Eh disagree. We started cranking out carriers like they were Ford fiestas, we would’ve regained control in no time.
Posted on 6/6/21 at 1:04 pm to Master Guilbeau
quote:
Eh disagree. We started cranking out carriers like they were Ford fiestas, we would’ve regained control in no time.
True, but the debate is what could have Japan done in the interim and how much longer would it have taken to defeat them. I think history says we win no matter what unless of course there was a political settlement somehow.
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