re: I'm taking legal action against the Office of Motor Vehicles

Maybe he can incorporate himself and get and ITIN? IDK. He can figure out those issues and deal with them as they arrive.

SS#’s have become the biblical mark of the beast.

I totally agree with op, that if there is a law against the OMV denying him a license, then they should abide by it. I absolutely hate when governmental entities make up their own rules (ex: Medicaid & Obamacare) and how it's impossible to get them to change because no one can really explain to you or understands themselves why they have such rules. But I'm not completely convinced that not having a SS # will exempt him from having to pay into SS. That's a much bigger hill to climb and I'm not aware of any laws that would back up his stance.

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But I'm not completely convinced that not having a SS # will exempt him from having to pay into SS. That's a much bigger hill to climb and I'm not aware of any laws that would back up his stance.

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I'm not sure of that either to be honest and never once claimed that anything will exempt anyone.

What I do know is that I've heard, "you can't" and "the law won't allow" and so on for the last 16 years. Every single person, including the DMV AND 99% of the people in this thread, were wrong.

Based on that data, can anyone say conclusively that what you believe is 100% accurate? I don't think I can anymore.

To quote Mark Twain again..


“It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so. “ – Mark Twain

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right...but at what cost will it be to prove?

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So far, the cost to do this has been pretty low. I enjoy reading the law and doing research so it's no big deal. It's not like I'm spending a ton of time doing this either. I've probably got 50 hours in this across a year, if that.

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There is not a big difference between stubborn and stupid

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What if I do my research and actually discover that Social Security IS optional and you just need a TAX ID to file taxes.

If that is the case, it's probably a 2 million dollar question. If my son invests what he would have provided to the government in FICA taxes, it's worth that much.

So maybe it's worth looking into.

As I said in my very first post. He can do whatever he wants when he turns 18. If he wants to sign up for SS, he's fully capable of doing so with my blessing.

This was all about it being his choice.

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But I'm not completely convinced that not having a SS # will exempt him from having to pay into SS. That's a much bigger hill to climb and I'm not aware of any laws that would back up his stance.

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Employers will withhold the money regardless because they are required to by law; the son would just not have these withholdings credited to him.

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This was all about it being his choice.

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What logical person would choose the path you have laid out for your son?

You have knowingly made choices here that have cost you real dollars (not claiming him on a tax return), have led to court costs being spent, and has delayed your son from getting his TIP (and subsequent licensing) by at least 9 months.

This choice has also made him unemployable and ineligible for federal student aid programs.

It's an illogical and irrational choice by any stretch.

Have you dispassionately laid out all of the facts of the situation to your presumably 15-16 year old son and asked him what he'd prefer to be done? Not just your viewpoints, but the true unadulterated facts? I'm guessing not.

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What if I do my research and actually discover that Social Security IS optional and you just need a TAX ID to file taxes.

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As an US citizen, the only individual tax ID available to your son is a SSN. For him to be compensated by an employer legally, the employer has to submit FICA on his behalf. Those are the rules for the privilege to work in the US, whether we like it or not.

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For him to be compensated by an employer legally, the employer has to submit FICA on his behalf. Those are the rules for the privilege to work in the US, whether we like it or not.

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This is 100% false. There are groups in the US currently that don't pay FICA. I'm not trying to argue with you but this is a verifiable fact.

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This is 100% false. There are groups in the US currently that don't pay FICA. I'm not trying to argue with you but this is a verifiable fact.

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So he’s limited to only working for those groups

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So he’s limited to only working for those groups

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Maybe not.

Everyone is saying he HAS to sign up for social security, and they may be right. But, all those people people were equally sure it was impossible to get a driver's license without a social security number.

What everyone was told and what everyone believed was wrong. Even when the law specifically said I was correct in plain English.

There is a book that addresses this phenomenon called "black box thinking" if anyone cares to read something interesting.