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re: Hydrogen Vehicles
Posted on 2/12/24 at 12:39 pm to ChatGPT of LA
Posted on 2/12/24 at 12:39 pm to ChatGPT of LA
quote:
What? Is this a serious question? EVs are a disaster in so many ways.
Yeah, uh.....nah. They flat-out work incredibly well for commuter applications and the tech is getting better by the day. I'm sorry that your commitment to a particular political ideology requires that you spout this nonsense repeatedly.
quote:
That fad will die until something other than mined lithium is used for storage.
Yeah, again.....nah. You may WANT it to, but it's not. We may well get past lithium at some point, but like any fossil fuel before it, lithium will be around to bridge that gap between technologies. Some automakers whose bottom line is less staked in EVs will back off and get a little more conservative with their rollouts, but EVs as a whole aren't going anywhere.
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Posted on 2/12/24 at 12:50 pm to Penrod
Laughable you imagine hydrogen will overcome the even steeper infrastructure challenges on the next 20 years, if ever, than EV's already face.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 12:58 pm to ChatGPT of LA
quote:
Infrastructure is nothing to get. Relative to electric, its a simple add on/conversion for existing stations.
Seriously?
Posted on 2/12/24 at 1:27 pm to ChatGPT of LA
quote:
Infrastructure is nothing to get. Relative to electric, its a simple add on/conversion for existing stations.
How is converting to cryogenic storage simpler than putting a side station that hooks into existing electrical?
Posted on 2/12/24 at 1:30 pm to ChatGPT of LA
quote:
That fad will die until something other than mined lithium is used for storage.
No, that isn’t the limiting factor.
But I’d think your be surprised at how far along alternate battery techs are getting. Some of them are already in small scale production.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 1:34 pm to Volvagia
quote:
Now you are talking about adding hydrazine to cars, with no idea of how much WORSE that is than pressurized hydrogen.
It is used as foaming agent when diluted with water. Pure hydrazine is very touchy stuff.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 1:38 pm to Clames
Transportation companies are finding out the infrastructure costs of alternative fuels are almost insurmountable.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 2:41 pm to Auburn1968
quote:
It is used as foaming agent when diluted with water.
No it isn’t. It’s used to make azodicarbonamide, which is extracted and placed in plastic polymers because when heated it makes lots of various benign gasses, letting the semi harden plastic to “puff”
Not sure what your point is. Plastics industry has a frickton of really unhealthy precursors.
quote:
Pure hydrazine is very touchy stuff.
Annnnnd what do you think you are using when trying to extract hydrogen via chemical reaction fast enough to power a car? And even if you could get it to work with an aqueous mix, what will you do with all of the ammonia liquor left behind?
Posted on 2/12/24 at 2:56 pm to Clames
quote:
Laughable you imagine hydrogen will overcome the even steeper infrastructure challenges on the next 20 years, if ever, than EV's already face.
EV infrastructure is not the problem. If EVs were robust and desirable the free market would produce the infrastructure fast. The same is true for hydrogen fuel cells. Eventually the feds will outlaw hydrocarbon ICE cars. When that happens, if EVs have not become easy to charge fast, hydrogen will take off. The infrastructure is hydrogen plants spread around the country and local transportation of fuel cells plus the buildout of changing stations. It’s a lot, but we could do it in 10 years easily if it became economical. And it would be economical in the scenario that government outlaws hydrocarbon ICE vehicles and EVs are not there yet.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 3:07 pm to ChatGPT of LA
quote:
Except for the fact that BMW has a consumer vehicle out with hydrogen engine.
Infrastructure is nothing to get. Relative to electric, its a simple add on/conversion for existing stations.
Then why did Shell close its hydrogen fueling stations in CA and a Japanese company sued its equipment supplier for faulty equipment at its 50+ stations in CA?
Freaking clueless H2 supporters.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 3:13 pm to Penrod
quote:
And it would be economical in the scenario that government outlaws hydrocarbon ICE vehicles and EVs are not there yet.
Did they ever figure out how to make a fuel cell sized to power a car not cost 100k because of the precious metals used to make it?
Because if not……EVs are much further along than hydrogen.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 3:38 pm to CitizenK
quote:
1. Handling hydrogen was done routinely from the 1850's up until the mid-1950's in the form of Town Gas or coal gas. Super pressures are not some requirement.
Wrong. If gasified and cracked it become syngas which is hydrogen and carbon monoxide with CO2 as byproduct, along with ash.
That is precisely what Town Gas/coal gas is. It is commonly known as Town Gas or coal gas. Tarrytown, NY had the last operating coal gas system and it closed in the mid-1950's.
Pretty nasty stuff that required a lot of cleaning and filtration before use. None the less it contained a lot of hydrogen and was used for around 100 years.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 3:46 pm to CitizenK
quote:
FWIW, gas works used to produce town gas from coal was in major cities in the South too. The old pipes remain in homes of New Orleans built in the early 1900's.
My loft was in a 100 year old building with 3/8" gas light pipes from before electric light. Those pipes where originally black iron, but whatever the hydrogen and CO did to them made them extremely hard to remove. Couldn't cut it with a large saber saw with a metal blade!
Posted on 2/12/24 at 3:49 pm to GumboPot
quote:
Due to energy density, hydrogen is not up to the gasoline/diesel standards (safety included) that we are used to.
Here is a good explanation:
The Unfortunate Truth About Toyota's Hydrogen V8 Engine
Hydrogen really doesn't make sense in an ICE. It can only begin to make sense in fuel cells that can get 60 to 80% efficiency. There also has to be a cheaper supply.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 3:55 pm to chryso
quote:
Yall do know that gasoline is also dangerously flammable, right?
There was a science docu quite a while back that did tests comparing hydrogen to gasoline. They shot a compressed hydrogen cylinder with a high powered rifle and did the same to one containing gasoline. The hydrogen flame shot straight up in a column. The gasoline splashed all over the surrounding area and burned there.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 4:02 pm to Auburn1968
The unfortunate truth is that diesel fuel is about as good as you can do for energy density at atmospheric conditions. All gaseous fuels are a pain the dick for any kind of transportation use.
The alternative is nuclear, and that's what we should be dumping all this r&d into. Compact nukes are the next major breakthrough. In the meantime, hybrid diesel electric is where its at.
The alternative is nuclear, and that's what we should be dumping all this r&d into. Compact nukes are the next major breakthrough. In the meantime, hybrid diesel electric is where its at.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 4:10 pm to Auburn1968
Hydrogen Fuel-Cell Vehicles: Everything You Need to Know
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a41103863/hydrogen-cars-fcev/
Posted on 2/12/24 at 4:24 pm to Auburn1968
Sorry dude, your info all comes from the internet. You've never dealt with hydrogen anything.
Where hydrogen fueling is most prevalent, CA, is having huge issues with it.
A friend in Houston has a number of compressors for hydrogen from bankrupt fueling stations. He sells them to companies like Praxair to fill welding cylinders.
Where hydrogen fueling is most prevalent, CA, is having huge issues with it.
A friend in Houston has a number of compressors for hydrogen from bankrupt fueling stations. He sells them to companies like Praxair to fill welding cylinders.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 5:15 pm to ChatGPT of LA
quote:
Infrastructure is nothing to get. Relative to electric, it’s a simple add on/conversion for existing stations.
If by “simple add on/conversion” you mean.. addition of compression and cryogenic storage systems, complete replacement of all tanks/pumps, and complete rebuild of the entire distribution network.. then sure, it’s simple.
Hell, if they build smart they might be able to avoid demolishing the convenience stores.
Posted on 2/12/24 at 7:55 pm to CitizenK
quote:
Sorry dude, your info all comes from the internet. You've never dealt with hydrogen anything.
Where hydrogen fueling is most prevalent, CA, is having huge issues with it.
A friend in Houston has a number of compressors for hydrogen from bankrupt fueling stations. He sells them to companies like Praxair to fill welding cylinders.
I have no doubt that a hydrogen system ain't there yet, but that's no reason give up on research and development. Then again I've followed the topic for decades mostly on the R&D side.
I don't have a problem with fossil fuels, but I do notice that NYC's sky becomes blue rather than grayish after a long weekend. Of course, flying into NY that gray dome is quite evident too.
It would be nice to see a direct CH4 fuel cell make it out of the lab. Yeah, it's a long way from the lab to the road.
This post was edited on 2/12/24 at 8:25 pm
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