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re: How much longer before Doctors are obsolete?

Posted on 6/30/16 at 9:17 am to
Posted by TigerRob20
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2008
3733 posts
Posted on 6/30/16 at 9:17 am to
quote:

receptionists/billing specialists/nurses/PAs/phlebotomists/etc.


doesnt sound too bad after dealing with some of the low level employees at DR offices and hospitals.

'No I'm not filling out this form again, when you have all this information on the screen in front of you.'

Posted by dreaux
baton rouge
Member since Oct 2006
40882 posts
Posted on 6/30/16 at 9:17 am to
I agree with you bob except there is one problem. How do really know the full extent of progress in the medical field? The gnome has been mapped for like over 20 years...we all know how classified weapons research is. I would be willing to bet there is medical and gene therapy research just as highly or more classified. Thats the unknown quantity here.
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
119977 posts
Posted on 6/30/16 at 9:18 am to
quote:


just for clarification - I am not saying this is happening now. And anyone who says "never" is being mildly retarded and ignorant of history (from the perspective that anything seems possible with newer tech).

All it takes is a few breakthroughs and suddenly your techies are ruling the world...well...that is already happening but it will be even more of the case.


This may seem bizarre, but when Nanobots are perfected, they will expand our lifespans by hundreds if not thousands of years. It's going to be exciting.
Posted by McCaigBro69
TigerDroppings Premium Member
Member since Oct 2014
45293 posts
Posted on 6/30/16 at 9:19 am to
quote:

This may seem bizarre, but when Nanobots are perfected, they will expand our lifespans by hundreds if not thousands of years. It's going to be exciting.


This makes me happy. So many more years of jerking off to look forward to!
Posted by LucasP
Member since Apr 2012
21618 posts
Posted on 6/30/16 at 9:19 am to
quote:

And we probably won't need receptionists/billing specialists/nurses/PAs/phlebotomists/etc.


This should cut costs in half. It's amazing how much time and money gets wasted this shite.
Posted by funnystuff
Member since Nov 2012
8962 posts
Posted on 6/30/16 at 9:22 am to
I agree with you that the field isn't going away, but I disagree with this reasoning...
quote:

We are going to replace a field where we still probably know less than we know, but doctors will be replaced before bankers and other number punchers.
It's kind of the entire point of machine learning that the machines will be able to figure out stuff that we haven't. They use massive pools of data to identify every little trend, pattern, and outlier and reverse engineer solutions to problems that we don't even know exist yet.

AI innovations won't just come in fields where we have a nearly completely established base of knowledge and procedures. It'll be far more valuable in fields like medicine where there is still so much we don't know.

Though if I had to guess, I think AI will be most valuable medically in coming up with the solutions to our ailments. I still think people will want an actual doctor to explain it to them and walk them through it, at least for the big stuff. Almost a midpoint between today's nurse and medical doctor
This post was edited on 6/30/16 at 9:26 am
Posted by McCaigBro69
TigerDroppings Premium Member
Member since Oct 2014
45293 posts
Posted on 6/30/16 at 9:28 am to
quote:

I still think people will want an actual doctor to explain it to them and walk them through it, at least for the big stuff. Almost a midpoint between today's nurse and medical doctor


Not me. Like I already said, if I'm dying, I'd rather hear it from a robot than a doctor who shows zero emotion and walks into the next patients door like nothing just happened.

At least I could sit there and think, "well shite, I can't expect too much empathy from a robot"
Posted by funnystuff
Member since Nov 2012
8962 posts
Posted on 6/30/16 at 9:28 am to
I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing considering the competency of a couple of the nurses I know haha.

But it is a step towards eventually merging those two professions, which is where I think things are heading
This post was edited on 6/30/16 at 9:29 am
Posted by Tigers_Saints
Member since Jun 2016
949 posts
Posted on 6/30/16 at 9:43 am to
quote:

I'm gonna say fifteen years.


Way sooner than I would say.



Posted by ThinePreparedAni
In a sea of cognitive dissonance
Member since Mar 2013
11315 posts
Posted on 6/30/16 at 9:52 am to
If AI came along and you program it to "keep people healthy" here is a potential outcome:

AI would conclude that the biggest drivers of poor human health relate to obesity and poor habits like smoking, nutrient poor diet, chronic stress in many forms (including) using peripherals..

It may decide to cut off your hands, induce blindness, wire your jaw shut, provide controlled feeds via G-tube to offset the issues above.

A very blunt solution to the problem, but not very practical...

We will continue to become unhealthier as a species as we continue to move further and further away from the natural environment/behaviors we evolved in /with

We are out of balance/mismatched, plain and simple...

LINK

quote:

We live in extraordinary times. Human ingenuity has given us flight, space travel, lasers, the internet, and amazing medical technologies that can help the deaf hear and the blind see. We’re able to reattach limbs, transplant organs, and we’re even not far away from being able to grow new human tissue in a lab.
Yet despite these considerable advances, we’re sicker and fatter than ever before.

Consider the following:
• Excess weight now accounts for one in three deaths among middle aged people in the US each year.
• A billion people around the world suffer from diabetes and obesity.
• 600 thousand people die of heart attacks in the US each year.
• One-third of Americans suffer from high blood pressure, which contributes to almost 800 thousand strokes every year.
• 50 million people in the US—one in six Americans—suffer from autoimmune diseases like Hashimoto’s, rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, and Crohn’s disease.
• Depression is now the leading cause of disability, affecting more than 120 million people worldwide.

Unfortunately, there’s every indication that things are going to get worse before they get better. This is the first generation of American children that are expected to live shorter lifespans than their parents. If current trends continue, 95 percent of Americans are expected to be overweight or obese within two decades, and one in three will suffer from diabetes.

The consequences of this modern disease epidemic are profound. In addition to making us miserable, it has brought our economy to its knees. In the US, the cost of treating diabetes alone is estimated at $250 billion a year. To put this in perspective, the U.N. has estimated that the cost of ending world hunger would be $200 billion—less than we spend treating a completely preventable disease each year.
Posted by Blob Fish
Member since Mar 2016
3091 posts
Posted on 6/30/16 at 9:58 am to
It takes 12 years for the average drug to make it from the research lab to the patient. Yet, according to the people arguing on this board using a combination of conspiracy theory and the word "stuff", we will be seeing doctors unemployed in our lifetimes. Not likely.
Posted by funnystuff
Member since Nov 2012
8962 posts
Posted on 6/30/16 at 10:02 am to
You're likely referencing artificial super intelligence (ASI) when you say that they'll have the capability to cut off hands, induce blindness, etc. (AGI at the least). There is a ton of room for task automation before we reach either of those thresholds. We can create machine learning algorithms that will be exceedingly advanced diagnosers without having any ability to enforce a recommended change. That power will still remain with the patients who could simply choose not to accept a recommended amputation, for example

We do need to be aware of the dangers of inadequately prepared artificial general intelligence (which would likely grow into ASI very quickly and the results of that are anyone's guess). But that's very different from the limited AI that would be needed to automate a large amount of a doctor's current role
This post was edited on 6/30/16 at 10:06 am
Posted by funnystuff
Member since Nov 2012
8962 posts
Posted on 6/30/16 at 10:04 am to
People think linearly, but technology evolves exponentially. Don't discount the likelihood of our world being unrecognizable in 30-50 years
Posted by ThinePreparedAni
In a sea of cognitive dissonance
Member since Mar 2013
11315 posts
Posted on 6/30/16 at 10:06 am to
quote:

You're likely referencing artificial super intelligence (ASI) when you say that they'll have the capability to cut off hands, induce blindness, etc. (AGI at the least). There is a ton of room for task automation before we reach either of those thresholds. We can create machine learning algorithms that will be exceedingly advanced diagnosers without having any ability to enforce a recommended change. That power will still remain with the patients who could simply choose not to accept a recommended amputation, for example

We do need to be aware of the dangers of inadequately prepared artificial general intelligence (which would likely grow into ASI very quickly and the results of that are anyone's guess),l. But that's very different from the limited AI that would be needed to automate a large amount of a doctor's current role




I agree

The example I gave has been expressed by Neil Bostrom and echoed more recently by Elon Musk (summoning the demon)

I would like to think that we will see a kindler, gentler AI as touted by Ray Kurzweil and Kevin Kelley

"Wait but why" had a great write up on this giving the example of a machine that is made to write a handwritten note on a small card.

LINK
This post was edited on 6/30/16 at 10:13 am
Posted by funnystuff
Member since Nov 2012
8962 posts
Posted on 6/30/16 at 10:21 am to
I'm going to finish up The Master Algorithm by Domingos this week and then I'm on to Bostrom's Superintelligence next. I've heard great things about it

And yea, near everything on wait but why is outstanding, the writing machine post was awesome

Just wanted to make sure we're being precise when we say AI has the ability to enforce unfavorable conditions on us. Certain types of AI may eventually be able to do that, and potentially to a catastrophic degree. But there is a lot of elementary AI that we can control and utilize. Just want to make sure people don't clump all of those into the same bin
This post was edited on 6/30/16 at 10:24 am
Posted by ThinePreparedAni
In a sea of cognitive dissonance
Member since Mar 2013
11315 posts
Posted on 6/30/16 at 10:59 am to
quote:

Just wanted to make sure we're being precise when we say AI has the ability to enforce unfavorable conditions on us. Certain types of AI may eventually be able to do that, and potentially to a catastrophic degree. But there is a lot of elementary AI that we can control and utilize. Just want to make sure people don't clump all of those into the same bin


I agree

The other point I tried to make in the original post is that our health may not improve as technology gets better if the fundamentals to human wellness are not tended to properly:

nutrition
activity
sleep
stress managment

It has been my "observations" that technology in its current form in common use by the common man have negatively impacted the fundamentals above (overall contribution as I am aware there are some excpetions)

Finally, practitioners treating chronic disease with acute remedies (meds/tech/procedures) are already obsolete in my opinion...
This post was edited on 6/30/16 at 11:02 am
Posted by SouthTiger504
Member since Sep 2014
1163 posts
Posted on 6/30/16 at 11:24 am to
one thing you guys are forgetting is profiling. Robots would not question people's symptoms, prescription pain pills or drugs like adderall would be a huge problem.
Posted by dukke v
PLUTO
Member since Jul 2006
216143 posts
Posted on 6/30/16 at 11:31 am to
This will never happen. EVER. A robot can't ever replace human emotion. Fact.
Posted by DirtyMikeandtheBoys
Member since May 2011
19467 posts
Posted on 6/30/16 at 11:34 am to
quote:

Will AI and machines be able to fully treat us in 50 years?


quote:

AI


If this happens, there will be no such thing as disease/illness because we will either be extinct or immortal.
Posted by fishfighter
RIP
Member since Apr 2008
40026 posts
Posted on 6/30/16 at 12:05 pm to
quote:

Heck, in 50 years something similar to a wifi signal may be filtering through your house constantly monitoring all these things and uploading them to the med center. No words spoken.


I have a Merlin at home heart monitor that monitors 24/7. If a problem comes up, it sends all info to my doctors. Also, I do a check up once a month that the doctors go over thru it. If something is getting screwy, they call me in.
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