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re: How many plays are too many plays for a grade school football team?
Posted on 9/14/15 at 4:05 pm to LSUAlum2001
Posted on 9/14/15 at 4:05 pm to LSUAlum2001
When I played Bantam our playbook was 12 plays all runs. In 4 years under the same coach we lost 1 game and were city champs every year.
Make the playbook small and run it to perfection, condition the kids and teach the kids to block and tackle. That will get them much further than an overzealous coach with an overzealous playbook.
Make the playbook small and run it to perfection, condition the kids and teach the kids to block and tackle. That will get them much further than an overzealous coach with an overzealous playbook.
This post was edited on 9/14/15 at 4:08 pm
2
Posted on 9/14/15 at 4:32 pm to LSUAlum2001
I used to coach grade school football. I think we had something like 15 plays, which seems like a lot but I named every play after a SUPERHERO and for some reason it stuck. SUPERHEROS with capes were passing plays....non-capes were running plays. I had a few other distinctions thrown in there. It was fun. There are still two plays we ran that I think would work at HS or college level....but alas....every weekend grade school coach dreams he has the devised the next great play. Regardless, BATMAN would always get me the first down when I needed it.
Posted on 9/14/15 at 4:46 pm to LSUAlum2001
quote:
It's about 14 plays run out of 3 formations.
How is the team looking for Auburn, coach?
Posted on 9/14/15 at 9:57 pm to LSUAlum2001
Coached middle school offense for 14 seasons
By the time I finished coaching, our offense was paired to 3 running concepts and about 8 passing concepts
Now we would run them from different formations with motion and with different players, so the looked like a bunch more. But the blocking scheme didn't change up front, only the backfield action. That gave us variety
It is important to note that I took Chip Kelly's advice on the running game when he said something to the effect of "the teams that run the zone scheme successfully are those that do it 100% of the time instead of some power/man mixed with some zone" he also said at Oregon they basically ran 2 plays: inside zone and outside zone, with a ton of built in variant options
So we built the offense on the inside zone, a pull sweep, and a speed option. It really helped with out young lineman because they spent 90% of practice time working zone blocking different fronts and stunts and blitzes. They became very very good at it and were never surprised by a shift up front, or a blitz or anything
And with the zone, as long as the line stays on a body and within their rules, theoretically the defense is wrong no matter where he goes. Of course that is if you have a back that is good at reading his progressions through his cut backs quickly, which we had. Again our backs also spent 90% of practice time reading flow and cut back lanes.
TL;DR- we had 3 runs and 8 passes
By the time I finished coaching, our offense was paired to 3 running concepts and about 8 passing concepts
Now we would run them from different formations with motion and with different players, so the looked like a bunch more. But the blocking scheme didn't change up front, only the backfield action. That gave us variety
It is important to note that I took Chip Kelly's advice on the running game when he said something to the effect of "the teams that run the zone scheme successfully are those that do it 100% of the time instead of some power/man mixed with some zone" he also said at Oregon they basically ran 2 plays: inside zone and outside zone, with a ton of built in variant options
So we built the offense on the inside zone, a pull sweep, and a speed option. It really helped with out young lineman because they spent 90% of practice time working zone blocking different fronts and stunts and blitzes. They became very very good at it and were never surprised by a shift up front, or a blitz or anything
And with the zone, as long as the line stays on a body and within their rules, theoretically the defense is wrong no matter where he goes. Of course that is if you have a back that is good at reading his progressions through his cut backs quickly, which we had. Again our backs also spent 90% of practice time reading flow and cut back lanes.
TL;DR- we had 3 runs and 8 passes
Posted on 9/14/15 at 10:17 pm to KBeezy
Passing there are about 64 variations of 8 concepts depending on the formation. So technically that's 512 plays. Running there are about four variations of about ten so add 40 more and I guess you can say 554 excluding trick plays.
In reality all you have to know is 18 actual plays, four blocking schemes and eight pass routes.
In reality all you have to know is 18 actual plays, four blocking schemes and eight pass routes.
Posted on 9/14/15 at 10:38 pm to CHEDBALLZ
Our WR use to run plays. When we would run a play and make 7-8 yards coach would send in the play...... Coach said run the same play till we score or get stopped. If we ran a QB snake and got 8 yards...... We ran that till they stopped us.
Posted on 9/14/15 at 10:53 pm to KBeezy
I was the HC/OC for my HS 8th grade team for 12 years. It was a non-paying community coach position but in a very large 32 team league in and around metro Atlanta. Mostly 6A schools but with a few 4A and 5A schools as well. GMSAA was the league and they now have a pretty cool website.
Our offense was a Wing T/ power hybrid type of scheme. Overloaded at point of attack with either underneath or regular motion while keeping the Wing T blocking schemes and utilization of the mis-direction it is known for.
We had a 20 series, 30 series, 40 series, 50 series, and 80 series that we employed. We rarely ran anything out of the traditional 50 or 60 series. Every series of plays is consistent in QB steps and RB tracks. The 20 series, for instance, had 6 run plays and 2 play action pass plays where all backfield movement remained consistent. In that series, our QB worked the mid-line. One set up the other, etc.. Same for every series. Our option packages were run out of the 30 and 80 series as those two series had the QB reverse pivot. Altogether, run and pass, we had about 30 plays that could be ran out of 12 formations.
Formation included 100, 900, Spread 100, Spread 900, Red, Blue, Loose Left, Loose Right, Loose Left Trey, Loose Right Trey, Delta, and Right or Left Over.
We utilized many types of motion as well. Motion To, Motion Away, Jet, Liz, Rip, etc..
I retired after my 4th child was born but my boy is now 9 years old and I dusted off the old whistle to coach his 9-10 team. We play our first real game this Saturday but have played in two controlled jamborees. I am running a very scaled down version of the above. I have installed about 10 plays as of tonight that can go either right or left....so a total of 20 play calls. Could have more but I prefer to run the 10 we have with near perfect execution. I want my QB steps perfect, my motion timed right, fluid, and full speed. Play action fakes perfected with my RBs looking like they have the ball ,etc.. My lineman actually understanding the concept of each play and how their assignment is critical to that play. A small package of plays with solid fundamentals and techniques is better to me than a playbook full of sloppy, slow developing looking plays you often see in rec. ball. Every team we have scrimmaged so far (and all 4 were loaded with fast athletic players) execute the fundamentals like a 5-6 year old team. That is all on poor coaching.
Our offense was a Wing T/ power hybrid type of scheme. Overloaded at point of attack with either underneath or regular motion while keeping the Wing T blocking schemes and utilization of the mis-direction it is known for.
We had a 20 series, 30 series, 40 series, 50 series, and 80 series that we employed. We rarely ran anything out of the traditional 50 or 60 series. Every series of plays is consistent in QB steps and RB tracks. The 20 series, for instance, had 6 run plays and 2 play action pass plays where all backfield movement remained consistent. In that series, our QB worked the mid-line. One set up the other, etc.. Same for every series. Our option packages were run out of the 30 and 80 series as those two series had the QB reverse pivot. Altogether, run and pass, we had about 30 plays that could be ran out of 12 formations.
Formation included 100, 900, Spread 100, Spread 900, Red, Blue, Loose Left, Loose Right, Loose Left Trey, Loose Right Trey, Delta, and Right or Left Over.
We utilized many types of motion as well. Motion To, Motion Away, Jet, Liz, Rip, etc..
I retired after my 4th child was born but my boy is now 9 years old and I dusted off the old whistle to coach his 9-10 team. We play our first real game this Saturday but have played in two controlled jamborees. I am running a very scaled down version of the above. I have installed about 10 plays as of tonight that can go either right or left....so a total of 20 play calls. Could have more but I prefer to run the 10 we have with near perfect execution. I want my QB steps perfect, my motion timed right, fluid, and full speed. Play action fakes perfected with my RBs looking like they have the ball ,etc.. My lineman actually understanding the concept of each play and how their assignment is critical to that play. A small package of plays with solid fundamentals and techniques is better to me than a playbook full of sloppy, slow developing looking plays you often see in rec. ball. Every team we have scrimmaged so far (and all 4 were loaded with fast athletic players) execute the fundamentals like a 5-6 year old team. That is all on poor coaching.
Posted on 9/15/15 at 1:49 am to CHEDBALLZ
Use a number system for the players and holes, throw in a rb passing play: profit
Posted on 9/15/15 at 2:24 am to LSUAlum2001
When the other QB starts yelling Omaha at the line, you'll wish you had put in more plays.
Posted on 9/15/15 at 7:32 am to LSUAlum2001
All depends on how many crack babies you're trying to teach.
Posted on 9/15/15 at 8:36 am to Chad504boy
I-Right Wiggle 34 Switchblade
Posted on 9/15/15 at 8:38 am to LSUAlum2001
Is this rec ball or middle school?
Rec ball, you need three plays.
First play is to recruit the fast black kid.
Second play is toss sweep left.
Third play is toss sweep right.
Championship.
Probably works in middle school ball too.
Rec ball, you need three plays.
First play is to recruit the fast black kid.
Second play is toss sweep left.
Third play is toss sweep right.
Championship.
Probably works in middle school ball too.
Posted on 9/15/15 at 9:02 am to StringedInstruments
5th and 6th grade Catholic school league:
Dive, iso, sweep, counter, reverse, one play-action, one post, one waggle, and one screen...
Go both directions. Run them often. Run them well.
Closest game that team had that year was 35 - 14.
Dive, iso, sweep, counter, reverse, one play-action, one post, one waggle, and one screen...
Go both directions. Run them often. Run them well.
Closest game that team had that year was 35 - 14.
Posted on 9/15/15 at 9:12 am to LSUAlum2001
Over 10.
Grade school kids need to learn fundamentals. Not a ton of plays.
Grade school kids need to learn fundamentals. Not a ton of plays.
Posted on 9/15/15 at 9:22 am to LSUAlum2001
quote:
and a large portion of the plays are derivatives of a set of base plays?
Obviously, offenses range from very simple to very complex. It is better to be able to run 7 or 8 plays extremely well, than to have 300 that, maybe, the QB knows half and most of the players know about a quarter.
I would think that in the 40s or 50s, you probably start to get diminishing returns at grade school - and probably even most high schools (obviously there are exceptions) would be better suited to setting a cap of about 50 (with about 5 or 6 of those being trick plays) - and if you rep some of the mirror images of those plays, you can still exploit some mismatches the defense offers.
I mean it goes back to the old adage - beware the man who only owns 1 gun - he probably knows how to use it.
Posted on 9/15/15 at 9:31 am to LSUAlum2001
quote:
...and a large portion of the plays are derivatives of a set of base plays?
LSU only runs like 4 plays, so I'd say less than that.
Posted on 9/15/15 at 11:33 am to Kingpenm3
I've been a jr high and hs coach for a long time. The longer I coach the smaller my playbook gets. Currently we have condensed to 5 runs, 5 passes, and 2-5 change-ups (trick, reverse, etc) with 6 formations.
It's been my experience that kids are getting so bad at keeping focus enough to remember their job that we seem to be having to "dumb it down" more and more every year.
I blame cell phones but that's another topic....
I've had teams that could run as big of a playbook as you could imagine and some that couldn't run a simple lead.
so I guess my official answer is... depends on the kids.
It's been my experience that kids are getting so bad at keeping focus enough to remember their job that we seem to be having to "dumb it down" more and more every year.
I blame cell phones but that's another topic....
I've had teams that could run as big of a playbook as you could imagine and some that couldn't run a simple lead.
so I guess my official answer is... depends on the kids.
Posted on 9/15/15 at 11:59 am to ElDawgHawg
quote:
so I guess my official answer is... depends on the kids.
And, while I stand by my post from a general standpoint, this is the "drops mic" /thread answer.
Posted on 9/15/15 at 12:02 pm to LSUAlum2001
They only need 2 plays with derivatives off of them. The quarterback keeper with three or four varieties. Some kind of inside handoff to the back.
Posted on 9/15/15 at 12:04 pm to biglego
quote:
Tecmo Bowl had like 6 and that was enough. Esp if you got Barry sanders on your team.
Which is how peewee football is IRL. Starting with the 5/6 yr olds there's always 1 play that every team runs: give it to the fast black kid on a sweep
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