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Message
re: History Buffs...why didnt the Axis seek out US's help in WWII?
Posted on 8/29/20 at 11:48 am to beerJeep
Posted on 8/29/20 at 11:48 am to beerJeep
quote:
Why? That isn’t my job.
It would be spurious and you know it. I'm getting a Ph.D. in a field that relies on good historical work, and the idea that someone would whole-scale apply modern political terms, to different eras, would be so heavily scrutinized that it would be embarrassing for the author. There are fields where that sort of work is popular, but they are generally the literary fields, which like applying frameworks (as in Marxist, Post-Structuralist) to situations where they don't apply.
quote:
Why? Hell, pick up any modern translation of a medieval work. You’ll find the translation and then, often times, you’ll find a brief synopsis using modern vernacular to describe certain political or social issues that certainly wouldn’t exist at the time of the original work.
That's not what I'm referring to. It would be like talking the fabulous book A Handbook for William (an amazing text from the Carolingian era) and saying it represents 3rd-Wave feminism. That is anachronism. An explanation of the political context, if well-written, isn't. Unless you think every explanation of a political context is anachronism, at which point I suggest you read Thinking Medieval by Marcus Bull.
There is plenty of spurious work that does attempt to do this, but it isn't generally well-regarded.
1
Posted on 8/29/20 at 11:52 am to Tiger1242
quote:
That is definitely NOT what happened to the Nazis though
It absolutely is though. Who do you think were the prison guards? The einsatzgruppen? They were ordinary men. The regular Tom dick and Harry off the block. It wasn’t hitler and the top brass out there pulling the trigger.
Cogs in a machine.
Posted on 8/29/20 at 11:54 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
A Handbook for William
quote:
Thinking Medieval by Marcus Bull
Now on my reading list.
Posted on 8/29/20 at 11:55 am to IndianInBR
Yeah we were very closely aligned with the nation that preemptively invaded Poland and the USSR on a crusade to ethnically cleanse eastern Europe of those they deemed to be racially inferior.
It's an absolute joke that people believe the allies should have joined the Nazis against the USSR once the tide had clearly turned in the east.
It's an absolute joke that people believe the allies should have joined the Nazis against the USSR once the tide had clearly turned in the east.
Posted on 8/29/20 at 11:55 am to biglego
A Handbook for William is one of my favorite books. It's deeply moving.
Posted on 8/29/20 at 11:59 am to beerJeep
What’s the point you are trying to make here? The concentration camp guards were brainwashed into believing that all those innocent people were at fault for the decline of Germany?
Yea no shite, I’m not sure how that applies to anything being discussed in this thread
Yea no shite, I’m not sure how that applies to anything being discussed in this thread
Posted on 8/29/20 at 12:09 pm to Tiger1242
quote:
What’s the point you are trying to make here? The concentration camp guards were brainwashed into believing that all those innocent people were at fault for the decline of Germany?
My point is exactly what I said that you took contention with.
Posted on 8/29/20 at 12:40 pm to Tiger1242
The brainwashing excuses were convienetly made up after the war. Blame the Nazis and the SS for all the crimes while in reality most Germans willingly went along with Hitler's vision for the future of Europe.
Posted on 8/29/20 at 12:56 pm to Mo Jeaux
quote:
Would you boomers stop portraying progs as fascists? It’s so cringe.
Cringe is a verb, not an adjective.
But you're right. The political left in 2020 America are not fascists. They're just garden variety butthurt traitors, Benedict Arnolds minus the military acumen.
This post was edited on 8/29/20 at 12:56 pm
Posted on 8/29/20 at 1:17 pm to Cfrobel
quote:
The brainwashing excuses were convienetly made up after the war. Blame the Nazis and the SS for all the crimes while in reality most Germans willingly went along with Hitler's vision for the future of Europe.
Yea I mostly agree with this too. The guy I was arguing with is trying to make some point about how the people in Nazi Germany were just acting off human nature and most people would have done the same or something like that
Posted on 8/29/20 at 1:24 pm to Tiger1242
quote:
Nazi Germany were just acting off human nature and most people would have done the same or something like that
They were. Not all. But a sizable number.
You would had you been military age in Germany at the time.
This post was edited on 8/29/20 at 1:25 pm
Posted on 8/29/20 at 1:27 pm to IndianInBR
quote:
ideologically the US was closer to these countries than the Allies?
This tells me you know absolutely nothing of Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s ideology. While he wasn’t a full blown communist, his worldview was far closer to that of Stalin than Hitler.
Posted on 8/29/20 at 2:01 pm to Tiger1242
Yeah it was post war whitewashing that Germans used to shift blame and the guilt away from themselves. The PR done by the former members of the Whermacht and Waffen SS still has people today believing they were on a noble crusade against communism.
Posted on 8/29/20 at 6:39 pm to beerJeep
Yes. E
Yes every single nazi was bad. All germans in the Wermacht etc. werent nazis though.
quote:
Do you think “every single” nazi was bad?
Yes every single nazi was bad. All germans in the Wermacht etc. werent nazis though.
This post was edited on 8/29/20 at 6:40 pm
Posted on 8/29/20 at 6:56 pm to beerJeep
quote:
You would had you been military age in Germany at the time.
There’s a difference between fighting in the regular German army and being a Nazi, or a member of the SS, or working at a concentration camp
Posted on 8/29/20 at 6:58 pm to cgrand
quote:
there was a time when fanatical cult of authoritarian personality was an anathema to the American political culture.
Shhh 18-2 upvotes. Don’t tell them what authoritarian personality you’re talking about or what anathema means.
Posted on 8/29/20 at 7:04 pm to cable
quote:
It was all over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor
It was over when we got dolphin and whale involved.
Posted on 8/29/20 at 7:12 pm to Tiger1242
quote:
There’s a difference between fighting in the regular German army and being a Nazi, or a member of the SS, or working at a concentration camp
The einsatzgruppen. The guys who rounded up tens of thousands of innocent Jews at places like Babi yar and lined them up in rows before shooting them. They were ordinary men plucked off the street.
Time and time and time and time again humanity has shown that we are a brutal and barbaric species that are more than willing to put the “other” through absolute hell and torment. We have been this way since time immortal. We will continue to be this way as long as we exist.
Civilization is a thin veil that hides the reality of our species. We are willing to inflict unspeakable horrors in the name of staying alive and protecting the “us”.
Its easy to act like humanity has come so far and is high and mighty, but we are the same exact barbarians that we have always been.
Like I said, there is a reason we call those who sacrifice themselves heroes. There’s a reason we can give their names if asked. They are the exception to the rule of barbarism that plagues our species.
Posted on 8/29/20 at 7:33 pm to beerJeep
Okay you’ve successfully convinced me that you would have been a Nazi if you lived in Germany in the 1930’s and 40’s, congrats. I would not have been
Posted on 8/29/20 at 7:37 pm to Tiger1242
quote:
Okay you’ve successfully convinced me that you would have been a Nazi if you lived in Germany in the 1930’s and 40’s, congrats. I would not have been
If you were Japanese in the 30s you would have been slicing Chinese civilians guts open.
Has nothing to do with being a “nazi” it has to do with being a human.
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