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re: GM immediately cuts benefits for striking workers; UAW triggered
Posted on 9/18/19 at 11:57 am to Draconian Sanctions
Posted on 9/18/19 at 11:57 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
Union strength had dropped precipitously in the last 30 years, which correlated to stagnating wages. Coincidence?
Classic example of “correlation is not causation”
What’s your solution, btw? Union decline has been a natural occurrence as we switch to a desk job economy.
Do you have ANY evidence that profit margins are higher as a % now than in the golden age of unions?
This post was edited on 9/18/19 at 11:59 am
0
Posted on 9/18/19 at 12:00 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
It’s always interesting to see people who enjoy the results of union action (weekends, lunch breaks, paid vacation/sick leave) bash them.
Unions had their place. They're outdated now.
quote:
Union strength had dropped precipitously in the last 30 years, which correlated to stagnating wages. Coincidence?
The average worker has stagnated - no argument there - but the great worker has risen tremendously.
If you're an average to below average guy, unions are great.
Posted on 9/18/19 at 12:05 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:This is what gets me. I can't wrap my mind around an attitude toward other people that essentially boils down to "How dare you stand up for yourself?"
It’s always interesting to see people who enjoy the results of union action (weekends, lunch breaks, paid vacation/sick leave) bash them.
No one is going to argue that there are no problems whatsoever with any union, anywhere, or that every single strike under every set of circumstances is a good idea. But this reflexive instinct to shite on people for going to bat for themselves against the interests of multimillionaires is completely foreign to me.
Posted on 9/18/19 at 12:05 pm to Chuck Barris
quote:
But this reflexive instinct to shite on people for going to bat for themselves against the interests of multimillionaires is completely foreign to me.
are you new here?
Posted on 9/18/19 at 12:07 pm to Displaced
quote:
Or automate the whole fricking line.
Most assembly line jobs require such low skill they could easily be replaced with robotic, but keeping the manual labor is cheaper than re-tooling with industrial robots, that is the only reason it has not yet happened.
Posted on 9/18/19 at 12:10 pm to Chuck Barris
Striking =/= going to bat for yourself. It is acting like a petulant child that doesn't get his way. Going to bat for yourself would be negotiating a deal. If you don't like the deal go find another employer who is willing to give you what you want.
Posted on 9/18/19 at 12:10 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
Union strength had dropped precipitously in the last 30 years, which correlated to stagnating wages. Coincidence?
Yes. Correlation does not equal causation.
Next question.
Posted on 9/18/19 at 12:11 pm to Janky
quote:
The union has a billion dollar fund to pay expenses during strikes.
According to Stefan Weinman spokesman for General Motors, General Motors spends $5.2 billion on health care for 1.1 million people, equaling $4,727 annually per person. People can buy cheaper cars and get the same value without the health care costs of $1,525 built into every vehicle made. Add another $675 per car for pension costs.
Posted on 9/18/19 at 12:12 pm to Janky
quote:
Going to bat for yourself would be negotiating a deal.
labor laws prevent a strike until negotiating comes to an impasse and after a cooling off period
Posted on 9/18/19 at 12:12 pm to Chuck Barris
I reject the entire notion that there is a necessary conflict between workers and owners
My entire view is summed up here. Excuse the thick accent
LINK
My entire view is summed up here. Excuse the thick accent
LINK
Posted on 9/18/19 at 12:13 pm to Chuck Barris
quote:
This is what gets me. I can't wrap my mind around an attitude toward other people that essentially boils down to "How dare you stand up for yourself?" No one is going to argue that there are no problems whatsoever with any union, anywhere, or that every single strike under every set of circumstances is a good idea. But this reflexive instinct to shite on people for going to bat for themselves against the interests of multimillionaires is completely foreign to me.
They're not standing up for themselves individually. They're trying to raise the benefits of the group, regardless of whether or not they're earned.
As I said earlier, modern unions are great for the average worker and below. They're designed to suppress the pay of the great worker. I simply cannot get behind that kind of scheme.
Posted on 9/18/19 at 12:13 pm to slackster
quote:-Henry Clay Frick, 1892
Unions had their place. They're outdated now.
quote:You do understand that chart doesn't show wages rising with worker productivity, right? I mean, it shows that the upper 20% of households have experienced a lot of household income (not wage) growth while others have not, but that doesn't really do anything to support your argument that unions prop up less productive workers.
The average worker has stagnated - no argument there - but the great worker has risen tremendously.
Posted on 9/18/19 at 12:13 pm to IAM4LSU777
quote:
Hire non union workers, production may increase, but quality will decrease.
Posted on 9/18/19 at 12:15 pm to Chuck Barris
quote:
doesn't really do anything to support your argument that unions prop up less productive workers.
That's the only reason unions even exist today.
A productive worker has no need for a union today with current labor, EEO, OSHA, etc. laws.
Posted on 9/18/19 at 12:16 pm to 777Tiger
quote:
labor laws prevent a strike until negotiating comes to an impasse and after a cooling off period
That impasse should be the point when they walk to find another employer. This bullshite of holding the company hostage because they think you should pay more than 4% of your healthcare cost is for the birds. Carry your arse and see what your market value is.
Posted on 9/18/19 at 12:20 pm to Chuck Barris
I implore you to read some articles on why the stagnating wage data is so misleading
It simply doesn’t mean what you think it does
Bloomberg: wage stagnation mostly a myth
It simply doesn’t mean what you think it does
Bloomberg: wage stagnation mostly a myth
Posted on 9/18/19 at 12:22 pm to Janky
quote:
That impasse should be the point when they walk to find another employer. This bull shite of holding the company hostage because they think you should pay more than 4% of your healthcare cost is for the birds. Carry your arse and see what your market value is.
trying to stay neutral and stir the pot here but in many cases these workers have a lot more vested in the company than the CEOs, who in many cases are "temporary" mercenary types that arrive and depart via golden parachute, and are in many cases turning to employees for cuts in benefits and pay to mitigate their poor business decisions
ETA: the "if you don't like it, go somewhere else" isn't always applicable, and is rarely rational, except maybe NFLPA
This post was edited on 9/18/19 at 12:24 pm
Posted on 9/18/19 at 12:24 pm to Chuck Barris
quote:
You do understand that chart doesn't show wages rising with worker productivity, right?
Yes, I know that productivity has vastly outgrown wages. The "why" matters in that conversation.
quote:
I mean, it shows that the upper 20% of households have experienced a lot of household income (not wage) growth while others have not, but that doesn't really do anything to support your argument that unions prop up less productive workers.
I've got charts for days though...
LINK
Posted on 9/18/19 at 12:28 pm to dewster
What's really needed is to break up the government unions. Teacher's unions should NOT exist. Any entity with a government contract shouldn't have union workers either. Like garbage pick-up, etc....
Posted on 9/18/19 at 12:29 pm to dewster
What's really needed is to break up the government unions. Teacher's unions should NOT exist. Any entity with a government contract shouldn't have union workers either. Like garbage pick-up, etc....
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