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re: Due to patient - doctor confidentiality we will never know what.....
Posted on 8/5/19 at 8:55 am to EarlyCuyler3
Posted on 8/5/19 at 8:55 am to EarlyCuyler3
I'm still going to disagree. Try treating depression or mania with a benzodiazepine alone. It's not going to work.
Posted on 8/5/19 at 8:56 am to Jake88
Oh I'm not suggesting that at all. They wont work like that of course. All I'm saying is that they can be extremely dangerous and more often than not, moreso than your typical antidepressants.
Posted on 8/5/19 at 8:58 am to Jake88
quote:
Those studies don't speak to what op is suggesting. They don't refute what TH was posting.
He specifically said 'don't blame the treatment'. Yet study after study has said the medication does cause a certain percentage to become angry, aggressive, and manic. Those kids were then dropped from that treatment??? With one study concluding, 'yes, the treatment was what caused the mania'.
Posted on 8/5/19 at 9:00 am to EarlyCuyler3
They cause a physical dependence far worse than SSRIs and sudden withdrawal can cause death. But, I wouldn't call them mood altering, rather anxiolytic.
Posted on 8/5/19 at 9:01 am to League Champs
Most studies also conclude the trade off is worth it, as mania is easier on the individual than depression. Worth noting.
Posted on 8/5/19 at 9:02 am to Jake88
quote:
But, I wouldn't call them mood altering
Having taken them myself, I certain would.
Posted on 8/5/19 at 9:03 am to League Champs
Now, you have to see how many shooters were in a med induced manic state at the time of their act to refute what he said.
Posted on 8/5/19 at 9:03 am to League Champs
quote:
cause a certain percentage to become angry, aggressive, and manic. Those kids were then dropped from that treatment??? With one study concluding, 'yes, the treatment was what caused the mania'.
So they went on to become mass shooters right?
Posted on 8/5/19 at 9:04 am to EarlyCuyler3
Having taken an absolute frick ton of Xanax back in the day, I can say it ain't mood altering. 
Posted on 8/5/19 at 9:05 am to GeauxTigers80
Very good points...
There is a causal connection between these incidents and the use of certain drugs- mostly antidepressants.
Taken by a person with some sort of anger issue, they can numb the sensitivity to pain and lead an unstable, angry person to go on a rampage.
I personally think that there ought to be a question on the background check about whether or not a person is taking anti-depressants. It’s that relevant
There is a causal connection between these incidents and the use of certain drugs- mostly antidepressants.
Taken by a person with some sort of anger issue, they can numb the sensitivity to pain and lead an unstable, angry person to go on a rampage.
I personally think that there ought to be a question on the background check about whether or not a person is taking anti-depressants. It’s that relevant
This post was edited on 8/5/19 at 9:13 am
Posted on 8/5/19 at 9:05 am to EarlyCuyler3
Why would you be treated solely with benzos?
Posted on 8/5/19 at 9:08 am to TH03
quote:
Having taken an absolute frick ton of Xanax back in the day, I can say it ain't mood altering.
they most certainly are. they can can cause mood swings, which is mood altering
Posted on 8/5/19 at 9:11 am to slackster
quote:
Most studies also conclude the trade off is worth it, as mania is easier on the individual than depression. Worth noting.
Two things of note:
1) You are advocating for the greater good of the individual over that of society.
2) The reason we have seen a jump in these shootings since 1980 is the attack on institutionalization that released the most severely ill among us into society on a daily basis
quote:
The modern deinstitutionalization movement was made possible by the discovery of psychiatric drugs in the late-20th century
The Dayton killer was expelled from high school for having a hit list. Was his daily freedom really worth trusting whatever treatment he may/may not have been getting?
Posted on 8/5/19 at 9:12 am to tgrbaitn08
quote:
they can can cause mood swings, which is mood altering
These are only really common in Xanax abuse. Abuse/addiction mood swings happen all the time. Doesn't mean the substance is mood altering.
Posted on 8/5/19 at 9:14 am to League Champs
quote:
2) The reason we have seen a jump in these shootings since 1980 is the attack on institutionalization that released the most severely ill among us into society on a daily basis
I can get behind this, but you're arguing that the treatment of individuals is causing manic states that lead to these shootings while simultaneously saying ending the treatment of these people caused the uptick in shootings.
Should we treat them or not?
Posted on 8/5/19 at 9:14 am to TH03
quote:
So they went on to become mass shooters right?
uh, what part of 'they were dropped from treatment' got past you? And it was the clinical study that concluded the treatment was the cause of the mania, so …
Posted on 8/5/19 at 9:17 am to TH03
quote:
Doesn't mean the substance is mood altering.
When I'm about to punch holes the the walls of my house because my kids are driving me crazy, a xanax will usually calm me down to a point where I'll only kick the dog
Posted on 8/5/19 at 9:18 am to TH03
quote:
while simultaneously saying ending the treatment of these people caused the uptick in shootings.
No one I know of suggested this. Being on the medication created the mania, not getting off of it.
In fact, those given on a placebo only registered 0% manic episodes, across many studies.
Posted on 8/5/19 at 9:19 am to League Champs
quote:Law enforcement could have done something about this, no? Then a background check would have caught this.
The Dayton killer was expelled from high school for having a hit list. Was his daily freedom really worth trusting whatever treatment he may/may not have been getting?
How long should he be institutionalized? What happens when you say you don't think trannys should be reading to kids in libraries and someone labels you a dangerous extremist? Off to the institution.
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