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re: Does suicide= hell?
Posted on 12/6/16 at 8:38 am to airfernando
Posted on 12/6/16 at 8:38 am to airfernando
quote:
For all the brilliant people on this thread who don't believe, have you ever asked God to speak to you about the truth of Jesus Christ? God will absolutely speak to you if you ask him. You have nothing to lose.
I grew up Methodist, got baptized, believed everything, went through confirmation, church every Sunday, small group on Tuesdays, youth group through high school. Eventually started thinking logically about many things and decided that I didn't really believe the things I was reading. Haven't been back since.
0
Posted on 12/6/16 at 8:45 am to airfernando
quote:
To answer the OP, suicide does not equal hell. The only people who go to hell or people who have not accepted or acknowledged Jesus Christ as savior.
This is the answer I came up with. Someone close to me committed suicide a few years back and I really had a desire to study and come up with an answer. The only 'unforgivable' sin is rejecting Jesus Christ.
For some of you-
Probably like you, I grew up in a hellfire and brimstone baptist church too. I couldn't do anything I liked because that meant I was going to hell. It completely turned me off when I reached the age that I could really think for myself and question why we believed all of this stuff. I spent a few years out of any organized religion, in doubt of God's existence. Just like a million other folks, we decided to give God another shot after we had children. The people and the church in which we found a home are laser focused on the life and love of Jesus and living a complete, purposeful life through showing others that same love. Thats it.
Posted on 12/6/16 at 8:47 am to AUveritas
quote:My apologies. So many different opinions flying around.
Please show me where I claimed God was real. That's the difference. I don't state my belief as incontrovertible fact.
Posted on 12/6/16 at 9:15 am to AUveritas
quote:
I made no claim as to its truthfulness. Big difference.
Then we are not at odds on that point.
quote:
I hold myself to the same standard. If you like, I could quote the Catechism.
Quoting the catechism would not, in any way, provide evidence of hell or the existence of your god. Just as me quoting from The Lord of the Rings would not prove the existence of Hobbits. While that sounds provocative, it's not meant to be. If I don not come to the table assuming The Bible is full of truths, then why would claims taken from it, or from works derived from faith in general in regards to the catechism hold any real weight for me? Do you hold claims made by devout Muslims in high regards in terms of truthfulness...they certainly believe them as fully as you do your own, after all. I'm equally skeptical of both since they are both faith based.
Please understand, I've come to expect this. You, as a believer, come with certain baggage that you assume we BOTH have to hold as fact, and you start discussions/arguments off as if we've agreed to those terms. The problem as I see it is, when the discussion is about the existence of a deity which you yourself (believers in general I mean to say) have defined as essentially un-discoverable by human senses but for faith, then you're not playing fairly. We skeptics do not believe your claims of the existence of a god...so simply asserting his existence as fact and then moving onward with what we should do as a matter of that fact is silly from our perspective.
Posted on 12/6/16 at 11:07 am to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
Quoting the catechism would not, in any way, provide evidence of hell or the existence of your god. Just as me quoting from The Lord of the Rings would not prove the existence of Hobbits. While that sounds provocative, it's not meant to be. If I don not come to the table assuming The Bible is full of truths, then why would claims taken from it, or from works derived from faith in general in regards to the catechism hold any real weight for me?
Once again, my only statement was that the Catholic Church teaches x. I never claimed x was true. In short, my statement was verifiably true.
quote:
Do you hold claims made by devout Muslims in high regards in terms of truthfulness...they certainly believe them as fully as you do your own, after all. I'm equally skeptical of both since they are both faith based.
If a Muslim told me that Muslims believe x and can show me that the statement was true, I would believe that. Faith doesn't come into play. Saying your Church/faith teaches something and making a claim that the teaching is true are not the same thing.
quote:
Please understand, I've come to expect this. You, as a believer, come with certain baggage that you assume we BOTH have to hold as fact, and you start discussions/arguments off as if we've agreed to those terms. The problem as I see it is, when the discussion is about the existence of a deity which you yourself (believers in general I mean to say) have defined as essentially un-discoverable by human senses but for faith, then you're not playing fairly.
I understand and agree. If I claimed that suicides do or do not go to hell or that hell does or does not exist, then I would expect to be held to that standard. However, I made no such claim. The poster I responded to did.
quote:
We skeptics do not believe your claims of the existence of a god...so simply asserting his existence as fact and then moving onward with what we should do as a matter of that fact is silly from our perspective.
In the end, if one discounts faith and bases their opinion only upon knowable facts, then agnosticism is the only intellectually honest position. I have no absolute proof God exists and no atheist has absolute proof God does not exist.
Posted on 12/6/16 at 12:34 pm to wal marks
in christianity, i have heard various answers. the first i heard was that killing is a sin, and since you're dead, you cannot ask for and receive foregiveness. go to hell.
another theory is that there is an age of accountability, before which you are guaranteed heaven. some say 21-25. what if you are incompetent? permanent guarantee?
the best answer, imho, is that persons who make a profession of faith accept salvation, which includes forgiveness of all sin (past, present and future). saved people go to heaven. if you don't accept salvation, you go to hell, regardless of when or how you die (unless you are too young/incompetent).
the truth? we'll find out soon enough. i wouldn't bet against Christianity, but then that is what i think i know.
another theory is that there is an age of accountability, before which you are guaranteed heaven. some say 21-25. what if you are incompetent? permanent guarantee?
the best answer, imho, is that persons who make a profession of faith accept salvation, which includes forgiveness of all sin (past, present and future). saved people go to heaven. if you don't accept salvation, you go to hell, regardless of when or how you die (unless you are too young/incompetent).
the truth? we'll find out soon enough. i wouldn't bet against Christianity, but then that is what i think i know.
Posted on 12/6/16 at 1:04 pm to TigerBait1127
quote:
Please provide the details of this happening in Egyptian history
Egyptian history is a guessing game 1) due to the fire at Alexandria 2) rulers overlapped one another, and are essentially worthless in a timeline, and 3) certain eras were wiped clean of history by later rulers
However, Manetheo wrote a history of Egypt, and is quoted by others historians prior to the fire
quote:
"After this people or shepherds had left Egypt to go to Jerusalem, Tethmosis, who drove them out, was king of Egypt and reigned for twenty five years and four months, and then died"
LINK
quote:
Or evidence that the Jews were mass enslaved under Egyptian rule
Or archaeological evidence of the mass exodus of millions of people
First, they wouldn't have been known as Jews at that time. And I think the pyramid construction should speak for itself. The Jewish people were writing about the construction itself, and the mud bricks being made of the exact materials recorded in Biblical texts. Which would be an impossible guess if the Jews were never there, amirite?
However, evidence of a mass, sudden exodus has been found
quote:
The town of Kahun was a large working village that mysteriously just disappeared. They left behind not only their advanced buildings and infrastructure, but their legal and periodic documents and medical papyri that tell us so much about the city and people of Kahun in the Middle Kingdom. Kahun is unlike other towns in that it was not a town that was meant for regular life and the general population. Kahun was a temporary living site for the workers building the pyramid, Al-Lahun, and was abandoned on its 13th century completion.
LINK
quote:
A number of people named in the Kahun papyri are listed as Asiatics (aamu), suggesting a large presence of people of foreign origin there
LINK
quote:
The next documents were the aput, official lists of a man's household, giving the names of the family members, and their slaves.
LINK
Posted on 12/6/16 at 2:13 pm to airfernando
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/10/21 at 12:39 pm
Posted on 12/6/16 at 4:46 pm to AUveritas
Religion sucks
Posted on 12/6/16 at 5:28 pm to DarthTiger
quote:
After I became agnostic, I was able to recreate that experience
Whether you were a seeker before, or an agnostic then, it shouldn't disprove any experience with God. Because that would mean no one could ever have any experiences, since they couldn't attest to something they had no personal knowledge of beforehand.
Healings specifically, were intended for agnostics and atheists as signs
Posted on 12/6/16 at 6:03 pm to wal marks
friend committed suicide because he was a virgin. 1 person in HS graduating class killed himself with a gun.
Posted on 12/6/16 at 6:47 pm to knight_ryder
quote:
Religion sucks
Chairman Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot agree. We need more atheist utopias. Those people had it good.
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