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re: Does anyone here support the gender movement?
Posted on 7/9/17 at 11:26 pm to fouldeliverer
Posted on 7/9/17 at 11:26 pm to fouldeliverer
You are exactly what you are accusing everyone else of. The typical reference to 72 cents on the dollar doesn't contemplate controlling for any other variables, which is why it's laughable horseshite.
0
Posted on 7/9/17 at 11:26 pm to The Blonde Tiger
quote:
The only thing I want is equal pay for equal work.
Get into marketing/sales. If you do well, you make good money. If you don't do well, you're out the door, looking for a new job.
Posted on 7/9/17 at 11:31 pm to fouldeliverer
quote:
And why are all my arguments illegitimate, are you suggesting that women don't face harassment in male dominated fields? That there aren't societal pressures where women are encouraged or discouraged from certain fields?
There's not a single case where men and women are paid differently? Good god, you people are delusional.
Not a single case of men being paid less, not a profession where it went against society for a man to have a certain job? No cases of women being hired over a man with the same qualifications?
This post was edited on 7/9/17 at 11:35 pm
Posted on 7/9/17 at 11:34 pm to noonan
Let's just set aside the fact that you don't think men and women get paid differently within the same field (Which is a different aspect of the wage gap debate)
There is a gap across all fields, and we can agree on that.
It is a goal of many feminist organizations to encourage women to pursue more lucrative career fields, to get STEM degrees, to be more assertive in pursuing leadership and upper level management positions. They offer scholarships, training, they work with recruiters and companies to encourage more diversity. All of this is geared toward reducing one aspect of the wage gap (the one we both agree is real). So why is this a bad thing?
Exxon for example offers a women's engineering day and takes middle and high school to the company and shows them all the possible career opportunities. Tech companies offer scholarships, all of this is aimed at reducing that gap.
And as I said earlier discrimination and societal pressure goes both ways, it's why you see very few men in elementary education and up until recently in nursing.
There is a gap across all fields, and we can agree on that.
It is a goal of many feminist organizations to encourage women to pursue more lucrative career fields, to get STEM degrees, to be more assertive in pursuing leadership and upper level management positions. They offer scholarships, training, they work with recruiters and companies to encourage more diversity. All of this is geared toward reducing one aspect of the wage gap (the one we both agree is real). So why is this a bad thing?
Exxon for example offers a women's engineering day and takes middle and high school to the company and shows them all the possible career opportunities. Tech companies offer scholarships, all of this is aimed at reducing that gap.
And as I said earlier discrimination and societal pressure goes both ways, it's why you see very few men in elementary education and up until recently in nursing.
This post was edited on 7/9/17 at 11:36 pm
Posted on 7/9/17 at 11:45 pm to fouldeliverer
Here's the thing though.
You are saying that men and women go into different fields and thus is evidence of the wage gap.
We are saying that men and women go into different fields and that is the reason for the "wage gap".
The "wage gap" argument is that men and women in the same field are paid different wages. And when people try to argue that there is a wage gap they ignore the fields and just take a flat number of the whole thing.
I don't know what you're arguing, but as a former engineer, there wasn't a single male engineer that I knew that thought more female engineers was a bad thing. But that is still not the argument.
You are saying that men and women go into different fields and thus is evidence of the wage gap.
We are saying that men and women go into different fields and that is the reason for the "wage gap".
The "wage gap" argument is that men and women in the same field are paid different wages. And when people try to argue that there is a wage gap they ignore the fields and just take a flat number of the whole thing.
I don't know what you're arguing, but as a former engineer, there wasn't a single male engineer that I knew that thought more female engineers was a bad thing. But that is still not the argument.
This post was edited on 7/9/17 at 11:47 pm
Posted on 7/10/17 at 12:04 am to noonan
quote:
The "wage gap" argument is that men and women in the same field are paid different wages. And when people try to argue that there is a wage gap they ignore the fields and just take a flat number of the whole thing.
It's multifaceted. When people talk about the wage gap it could in reference to either 1. Gap in general regardless of variables other than sex. Or 2. Limiting as many as those other variables as possible. We both agree on the statistics on 1. I suggest about 5% on two which you disagree. Fine.
I'd also imagine we'd disagree on why women choose fields that typically pay less, fine.
Really all I am saying is 1. Ponchos analogy make no sense. 2. In general I find posts about this on the OT filled with a bunch of idiotic straw men posts like his.
When OTers write that there is no wage gap because the seventy blank percent is across all fields..it's just like well duh everyone knows that. It's not as if feminist organizations don't know that. When news outlets and studies report that as "the wage gap" it's understood that it doesn't limit variables. It's still a wage gap.
Everyone thinks they are making some great argument and proving liberals wrong; they aren't. For many when they speak of the wage gap that is to what they are referring, the gap bewtween men and women across all fields. And they seek to reduce that.
Sure, the second aspect is within the same field. But that's not even to what I'm talking about at the moment.
All in all though doesn't change the fact that ponchos hypothetical still doesn't make sense. He's saying if it was "real" a company would just hire a woman at 71% of the cost and that's stupid bc that's not what the gap is when comparing similar positions. So it fails at the most basic fundamental level.
This post was edited on 7/10/17 at 12:07 am
Posted on 7/10/17 at 12:05 am to noonan
Anyway, I get more worked up than I should. You have a good Monday 
Posted on 7/10/17 at 9:09 am to fouldeliverer
Damn you are a fricktard.
That works right? fricktard?
That works right? fricktard?
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