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re: Do you think the US was "evil" to drop bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
Posted on 5/27/16 at 9:05 pm to bbvdd
Posted on 5/27/16 at 9:05 pm to bbvdd
It saved many lives, It probably saved more Japanese lives than Americans.
We were going to win that war. Invading and bringing the population to it's knees was going to take time,but it would have eventually happened.
The Bomb was the most humane way.
It was like a big miracle that made believers out of them. They knew there was no fighting that power.
We were going to win that war. Invading and bringing the population to it's knees was going to take time,but it would have eventually happened.
The Bomb was the most humane way.
It was like a big miracle that made believers out of them. They knew there was no fighting that power.
1
Posted on 5/27/16 at 9:11 pm to auggie
You win a war at all costs. If we had to make 20 more and drop those, I'd be all for it. frick em.
The good old days of when we brought our enemies to their knees, begging. That was the US of A.
The good old days of when we brought our enemies to their knees, begging. That was the US of A.
This post was edited on 5/27/16 at 9:13 pm
Posted on 5/27/16 at 9:23 pm to bbvdd
I think the US is evil for electing an ignorant, self serving, idiot like Hussein Obama.
Posted on 5/27/16 at 10:21 pm to bbvdd
Seventy-one years ago, on a bright cloudless morning, death fell from the sky and the world was changed. A flash of light and a wall of fire destroyed a city and demonstrated that mankind possessed the means to destroy itself.
Why do we come to this place, to Hiroshima? We come to ponder a terrible force unleashed in a not-so-distant past. We come to mourn the dead, including over 100,000 Japanese men, women and children, thousands of Koreans, a dozen Americans held prisoner.
Their souls speak to us. They ask us to look inward, to take stock of who we are and what we might become.
It is not the fact of war that sets Hiroshima apart. Artifacts tell us that violent conflict appeared with the very first man. Our early ancestors having learned to make blades from flint and spears from wood used these tools not just for hunting but against their own kind. On every continent, the history of civilization is filled with war, whether driven by scarcity of grain or hunger for gold, compelled by nationalist fervor or religious zeal. Empires have risen and fallen. Peoples have been subjugated and liberated. And at each juncture, innocents have suffered, a countless toll, their names forgotten by time.
The world war that reached its brutal end in Hiroshima and Nagasaki was fought among the wealthiest and most powerful of nations. Their civilizations had given the world great cities and magnificent art. Their thinkers had advanced ideas of justice and harmony and truth. And yet the war grew out of the same base instinct for domination or conquest that had caused conflicts among the simplest tribes, an old pattern amplified by new capabilities and without new constraints.
In the span of a few years, some 60 million people would die. Men, women, children, no different than us. Shot, beaten, marched, bombed, jailed, starved, gassed to death. There are many sites around the world that chronicle this war, memorials that tell stories of courage and heroism, graves and empty camps that echo of unspeakable depravity.
Yet in the image of a mushroom cloud that rose into these skies, we are most starkly reminded of humanity’s core contradiction. How the very spark that marks us as a species, our thoughts, our imagination, our language, our toolmaking, our ability to set ourselves apart from nature and bend it to our will — those very things also give us the capacity for unmatched destruction.
How often does material advancement or social innovation blind us to this truth? How easily we learn to justify violence in the name of some higher cause.
Every great religion promises a pathway to love and peace and righteousness, and yet no religion has been spared from believers who have claimed their faith as a license to kill.
Nations arise telling a story that binds people together in sacrifice and cooperation, allowing for remarkable feats. But those same stories have so often been used to oppress and dehumanize those who are different.
Science allows us to communicate across the seas and fly above the clouds, to cure disease and understand the cosmos, but those same discoveries can be turned into ever more efficient killing machines.
The wars of the modern age teach us this truth. Hiroshima teaches this truth. Technological progress without an equivalent progress in human institutions can doom us. The scientific revolution that led to the splitting of an atom requires a moral revolution as well.
That is why we come to this place. We stand here in the middle of this city and force ourselves to imagine the moment the bomb fell. We force ourselves to feel the dread of children confused by what they see. We listen to a silent cry. We remember all the innocents killed across the arc of that terrible war and the wars that came before and the wars that would follow.
Mere words cannot give voice to such suffering. But we have a shared responsibility to look directly into the eye of history and ask what we must do differently to curb such suffering again.
Some day, the voices of the hibakusha will no longer be with us to bear witness. But the memory of the morning of Aug. 6, 1945, must never fade. That memory allows us to fight complacency. It fuels our moral imagination. It allows us to change.
Why do we come to this place, to Hiroshima? We come to ponder a terrible force unleashed in a not-so-distant past. We come to mourn the dead, including over 100,000 Japanese men, women and children, thousands of Koreans, a dozen Americans held prisoner.
Their souls speak to us. They ask us to look inward, to take stock of who we are and what we might become.
It is not the fact of war that sets Hiroshima apart. Artifacts tell us that violent conflict appeared with the very first man. Our early ancestors having learned to make blades from flint and spears from wood used these tools not just for hunting but against their own kind. On every continent, the history of civilization is filled with war, whether driven by scarcity of grain or hunger for gold, compelled by nationalist fervor or religious zeal. Empires have risen and fallen. Peoples have been subjugated and liberated. And at each juncture, innocents have suffered, a countless toll, their names forgotten by time.
The world war that reached its brutal end in Hiroshima and Nagasaki was fought among the wealthiest and most powerful of nations. Their civilizations had given the world great cities and magnificent art. Their thinkers had advanced ideas of justice and harmony and truth. And yet the war grew out of the same base instinct for domination or conquest that had caused conflicts among the simplest tribes, an old pattern amplified by new capabilities and without new constraints.
In the span of a few years, some 60 million people would die. Men, women, children, no different than us. Shot, beaten, marched, bombed, jailed, starved, gassed to death. There are many sites around the world that chronicle this war, memorials that tell stories of courage and heroism, graves and empty camps that echo of unspeakable depravity.
Yet in the image of a mushroom cloud that rose into these skies, we are most starkly reminded of humanity’s core contradiction. How the very spark that marks us as a species, our thoughts, our imagination, our language, our toolmaking, our ability to set ourselves apart from nature and bend it to our will — those very things also give us the capacity for unmatched destruction.
How often does material advancement or social innovation blind us to this truth? How easily we learn to justify violence in the name of some higher cause.
Every great religion promises a pathway to love and peace and righteousness, and yet no religion has been spared from believers who have claimed their faith as a license to kill.
Nations arise telling a story that binds people together in sacrifice and cooperation, allowing for remarkable feats. But those same stories have so often been used to oppress and dehumanize those who are different.
Science allows us to communicate across the seas and fly above the clouds, to cure disease and understand the cosmos, but those same discoveries can be turned into ever more efficient killing machines.
The wars of the modern age teach us this truth. Hiroshima teaches this truth. Technological progress without an equivalent progress in human institutions can doom us. The scientific revolution that led to the splitting of an atom requires a moral revolution as well.
That is why we come to this place. We stand here in the middle of this city and force ourselves to imagine the moment the bomb fell. We force ourselves to feel the dread of children confused by what they see. We listen to a silent cry. We remember all the innocents killed across the arc of that terrible war and the wars that came before and the wars that would follow.
Mere words cannot give voice to such suffering. But we have a shared responsibility to look directly into the eye of history and ask what we must do differently to curb such suffering again.
Some day, the voices of the hibakusha will no longer be with us to bear witness. But the memory of the morning of Aug. 6, 1945, must never fade. That memory allows us to fight complacency. It fuels our moral imagination. It allows us to change.
Posted on 5/27/16 at 10:21 pm to bbvdd
And since that fateful day, we have made choices that give us hope. The United States and Japan have forged not only an alliance but a friendship that has won far more for our people than we could ever claim through war. The nations of Europe built a union that replaced battlefields with bonds of commerce and democracy. Oppressed people and nations won liberation. An international community established institutions and treaties that work to avoid war and aspire to restrict and roll back and ultimately eliminate the existence of nuclear weapons.
Still, every act of aggression between nations, every act of terror and corruption and cruelty and oppression that we see around the world shows our work is never done. We may not be able to eliminate man’s capacity to do evil, so nations and the alliances that we form must possess the means to defend ourselves. But among those nations like my own that hold nuclear stockpiles, we must have the courage to escape the logic of fear and pursue a world without them.
We may not realize this goal in my lifetime, but persistent effort can roll back the possibility of catastrophe. We can chart a course that leads to the destruction of these stockpiles. We can stop the spread to new nations and secure deadly materials from fanatics.
And yet that is not enough. For we see around the world today how even the crudest rifles and barrel bombs can serve up violence on a terrible scale. We must change our mind-set about war itself. To prevent conflict through diplomacy and strive to end conflicts after they’ve begun. To see our growing interdependence as a cause for peaceful cooperation and not violent competition. To define our nations not by our capacity to destroy but by what we build. And perhaps, above all, we must reimagine our connection to one another as members of one human race.
For this, too, is what makes our species unique. We’re not bound by genetic code to repeat the mistakes of the past. We can learn. We can choose. We can tell our children a different story, one that describes a common humanity, one that makes war less likely and cruelty less easily accepted.
We see these stories in the hibakusha. The woman who forgave a pilot who flew the plane that dropped the atomic bomb because she recognized that what she really hated was war itself. The man who sought out families of Americans killed here because he believed their loss was equal to his own.
My own nation’s story began with simple words: All men are created equal and endowed by our creator with certain unalienable rights including life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Realizing that ideal has never been easy, even within our own borders, even among our own citizens. But staying true to that story is worth the effort. It is an ideal to be strived for, an ideal that extends across continents and across oceans. The irreducible worth of every person, the insistence that every life is precious, the radical and necessary notion that we are part of a single human family — that is the story that we all must tell.
That is why we come to Hiroshima. So that we might think of people we love. The first smile from our children in the morning. The gentle touch from a spouse over the kitchen table. The comforting embrace of a parent. We can think of those things and know that those same precious moments took place here, 71 years ago.
Those who died, they are like us. Ordinary people understand this, I think. They do not want more war. They would rather that the wonders of science be focused on improving life and not eliminating it. When the choices made by nations, when the choices made by leaders, reflect this simple wisdom, then the lesson of Hiroshima is done.
The world was forever changed here, but today the children of this city will go through their day in peace. What a precious thing that is. It is worth protecting, and then extending to every child. That is a future we can choose, a future in which Hiroshima and Nagasaki are known not as the dawn of atomic warfare but as the start of our own moral awakening.
Still, every act of aggression between nations, every act of terror and corruption and cruelty and oppression that we see around the world shows our work is never done. We may not be able to eliminate man’s capacity to do evil, so nations and the alliances that we form must possess the means to defend ourselves. But among those nations like my own that hold nuclear stockpiles, we must have the courage to escape the logic of fear and pursue a world without them.
We may not realize this goal in my lifetime, but persistent effort can roll back the possibility of catastrophe. We can chart a course that leads to the destruction of these stockpiles. We can stop the spread to new nations and secure deadly materials from fanatics.
And yet that is not enough. For we see around the world today how even the crudest rifles and barrel bombs can serve up violence on a terrible scale. We must change our mind-set about war itself. To prevent conflict through diplomacy and strive to end conflicts after they’ve begun. To see our growing interdependence as a cause for peaceful cooperation and not violent competition. To define our nations not by our capacity to destroy but by what we build. And perhaps, above all, we must reimagine our connection to one another as members of one human race.
For this, too, is what makes our species unique. We’re not bound by genetic code to repeat the mistakes of the past. We can learn. We can choose. We can tell our children a different story, one that describes a common humanity, one that makes war less likely and cruelty less easily accepted.
We see these stories in the hibakusha. The woman who forgave a pilot who flew the plane that dropped the atomic bomb because she recognized that what she really hated was war itself. The man who sought out families of Americans killed here because he believed their loss was equal to his own.
My own nation’s story began with simple words: All men are created equal and endowed by our creator with certain unalienable rights including life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Realizing that ideal has never been easy, even within our own borders, even among our own citizens. But staying true to that story is worth the effort. It is an ideal to be strived for, an ideal that extends across continents and across oceans. The irreducible worth of every person, the insistence that every life is precious, the radical and necessary notion that we are part of a single human family — that is the story that we all must tell.
That is why we come to Hiroshima. So that we might think of people we love. The first smile from our children in the morning. The gentle touch from a spouse over the kitchen table. The comforting embrace of a parent. We can think of those things and know that those same precious moments took place here, 71 years ago.
Those who died, they are like us. Ordinary people understand this, I think. They do not want more war. They would rather that the wonders of science be focused on improving life and not eliminating it. When the choices made by nations, when the choices made by leaders, reflect this simple wisdom, then the lesson of Hiroshima is done.
The world was forever changed here, but today the children of this city will go through their day in peace. What a precious thing that is. It is worth protecting, and then extending to every child. That is a future we can choose, a future in which Hiroshima and Nagasaki are known not as the dawn of atomic warfare but as the start of our own moral awakening.
Posted on 5/27/16 at 10:24 pm to SabiDojo
agree 
Posted on 5/27/16 at 10:24 pm to bbvdd
No.
Posted on 5/27/16 at 10:25 pm to Wolfhound45
Just rewatched The Pacific on HBOGO
it was necessary and justified to drop those bombs and end the war
it was necessary and justified to drop those bombs and end the war
This post was edited on 5/27/16 at 10:31 pm
Posted on 5/27/16 at 10:29 pm to SabiDojo
quote:This is accurate. It is well known among historians that Japan would be speaking Russian today if we had not dropped the bombs. We saved Japan from Russia. Russia was set to invade, and our forces were no where near ready. We were 2 to 6 months away.
that the only reason we dropped the bomb was to tell Russia to back the frick up.
Posted on 5/27/16 at 10:41 pm to bbvdd
The US needed the mass destruction to get the attention of the Jap invaders. Thankfully it worked, they saw the end of their destructive and arrogant ways. No apologies or sorrows needed, it was a justified response.
Posted on 5/27/16 at 11:17 pm to REG861
The US is the best society in some ways on the planet I won't deny that. You can live in society and non endorse the fiction claiming ownership of it. Please take your like it or leave it false argument elsewhere. Its so cliche. How can I leave something that doesn't exist? Your argument should really be submit or die. ? For you sense you love the government and military killing folks why don't you move to North Korea or China?
This post was edited on 5/27/16 at 11:36 pm
Posted on 5/27/16 at 11:36 pm to bbvdd
It was an all out war to the finish. I won't second guess the decision, awful though the consequences were.
Posted on 5/28/16 at 12:47 am to Jim Rockford
11 pages and nobody realizes Obama never said this? 
THE ANGER
THE ANGER 
Posted on 5/28/16 at 12:55 am to JuiceTerry
quote:
1 pages and nobody realizes Obama never said this? THE ANGER
What's sad is that UPI and Breitbart are respected "news" organizations in conservative circles. You'd find more truth in The Onion than these sites, "The Washington Times", etc. I haven't looked outside legit news sites in years, but this is really egregious. They've outright fabricated a statement and presented it as a direct quote made by Obama. Shame, shame, shame. It would be hilarious to hear Trump talk about it. There's no doubt he would defend it as the truth even after being shown it's a lie.
Posted on 5/28/16 at 1:02 am to JuiceTerry
How many replies were about Obama saying anything? Seems to me, just mostly people giving their personal opinion about the act. Was it right or wrong? I don't give a frick what Obama, or anybody else said about it.
I gave my opinion about the importance,and world changing effect. Obama wasn't alive back then,and neither was I.
It would be a stupid motherfricker that wants to change "the world that happened before he was born."
Then, you come along here, and try to pretend that people's comments were about Obama. That's weird.
I gave my opinion about the importance,and world changing effect. Obama wasn't alive back then,and neither was I.
It would be a stupid motherfricker that wants to change "the world that happened before he was born."
Then, you come along here, and try to pretend that people's comments were about Obama. That's weird.
Posted on 5/28/16 at 1:04 am to Split2874
quote:
WWII had a lot evil in it. I think the bomb itself could be considered evil because of what it can do
I do not think the US is evil for dropping it. It ended a world war
Bingo.
Smart man right here.
Posted on 5/28/16 at 1:20 am to bbvdd
It was a necessary evil, but killing hundreds of thousands people is evil, whatever the justification.
Posted on 5/28/16 at 1:34 am to auggie
quote:
How many replies were about Obama saying anything?
Seriously? Unlike the tards who obsess over the number of times Obama says "I", I didn't count the number of "frick him", "He's a traitor", and similar comments, but I know there were a lot in the posts I skimmed.
quote:
Seems to me, just mostly people giving their personal opinion about the act.
That discussion jumped the shark a long time ago. It's beyond tedious.
quote:
Then, you come along here, and try to pretend that people's comments were about Obama. That's weird.
Oh my.
This post was edited on 5/28/16 at 1:35 am
Posted on 5/28/16 at 1:47 am to Spock's Eyebrow
Ok unibrow.. how much does Obama's opinion,or anything else that he does or says, change anything that happened in the past,or the reason that anything was done the way it was at that time?
What can Obama change about the past?
Oh, when a person pretends to represent a group of people, then gives his own personal line of crap, that is contrary to the opinion of the people that he pretends to represent, he is a fraud, plain and simple.
He should have said "that is my opinion,The rest of the U.S. is glad we bombed you guys,because y'all deserved the frick out of it" at least we could say that he is honest. He didn't say that though, he chose to misrepresent the feelings of most U.S. Citizens.
He is guilty of treason.
What can Obama change about the past?
Oh, when a person pretends to represent a group of people, then gives his own personal line of crap, that is contrary to the opinion of the people that he pretends to represent, he is a fraud, plain and simple.
He should have said "that is my opinion,The rest of the U.S. is glad we bombed you guys,because y'all deserved the frick out of it" at least we could say that he is honest. He didn't say that though, he chose to misrepresent the feelings of most U.S. Citizens.
He is guilty of treason.
This post was edited on 5/28/16 at 2:04 am
Posted on 5/28/16 at 2:14 am to auggie
You don't know what treason is do you?
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