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re: Delphi, IN Murders Trial Thread
Posted on 10/31/24 at 6:34 am to Hot Carl
Posted on 10/31/24 at 6:34 am to Hot Carl
quote:
Oh, he was in a pen even though he hadn’t been convicted, but it was mainly due to his own protection and observation that he wouldn’t be able to get from the regular county jail. But he was given more stuff like a tablet and books from the beginning that other inmates didn’t. I guess they had to earn them through good behavior. So he was being treated relatively well, considering.
Treated relatively well, for someone not convicted of anything yet in a maximum security prison? I expect the defense to make a lot of hay with this. Dude has been in there for two years. No one will care if he's guilty, but this should become a huge issue if he's acquitted.
2
Posted on 10/31/24 at 6:49 am to POTUS2024
Allen is Bridge Guy.
There may have been others involved too but he was the dude on the bridge.
There may have been others involved too but he was the dude on the bridge.
Posted on 10/31/24 at 6:52 am to POTUS2024
His confession doesn't make much sense to me - could be because he's a lunatic and you shouldn't expect rational thought from a crazy person, or it could be because he wanted to end everything even if it meant a false confession.
1) Was going to rape these girls, but they were too young. Is that really a part of the calculus for rapists? Also, sex addiction, wants to rape girls, but they are too young so he just decides to kill them? Suicidal ideas he may have had, but is there reference to homicidal thoughts in his past? It doesn't make a lot of sense that he was like, 'ah, I'll just kill them'. He was right next to them on the bridge (assuming he is Bridge Guy) - easy to see they are young. So instead of going on your way and soothing your sex addiction with some porn or whatever, you're like, "well, I may as well just kill them." That seems a bit absurd. But again, if he's a loon and a rapist/killer type, then I guess logic doesn't come into play.
2) 'I did something with the gun, I guess that's where the bullet came from', this is a huge red flag, IMO. He knows how guns work. He didn't "do something" - he loaded the weapon then manipulated the slide to eject a round. He did so at the murder scene, ostensibly, according to the prosecution's theory of the case. And he would have done this for a reason - maybe he pointed the gun at the girls and racked the slide for effect to scare them - and that's something that he would describe, rather than saying "I did something with the gun". I'll be interested to see if LE pressed him on this to get more detail. If they didn't, and if he never gave more detail, this is going to look very suspicious of a false confession, IMO. Hopefully LE pursued this. I can't imagine them leaving this part of the story simply untold. That would be a huge misstep. But, they've been clowns thus far, so who knows...
1) Was going to rape these girls, but they were too young. Is that really a part of the calculus for rapists? Also, sex addiction, wants to rape girls, but they are too young so he just decides to kill them? Suicidal ideas he may have had, but is there reference to homicidal thoughts in his past? It doesn't make a lot of sense that he was like, 'ah, I'll just kill them'. He was right next to them on the bridge (assuming he is Bridge Guy) - easy to see they are young. So instead of going on your way and soothing your sex addiction with some porn or whatever, you're like, "well, I may as well just kill them." That seems a bit absurd. But again, if he's a loon and a rapist/killer type, then I guess logic doesn't come into play.
2) 'I did something with the gun, I guess that's where the bullet came from', this is a huge red flag, IMO. He knows how guns work. He didn't "do something" - he loaded the weapon then manipulated the slide to eject a round. He did so at the murder scene, ostensibly, according to the prosecution's theory of the case. And he would have done this for a reason - maybe he pointed the gun at the girls and racked the slide for effect to scare them - and that's something that he would describe, rather than saying "I did something with the gun". I'll be interested to see if LE pressed him on this to get more detail. If they didn't, and if he never gave more detail, this is going to look very suspicious of a false confession, IMO. Hopefully LE pursued this. I can't imagine them leaving this part of the story simply untold. That would be a huge misstep. But, they've been clowns thus far, so who knows...
Posted on 10/31/24 at 6:53 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Allen is Bridge Guy.
There may have been others involved too but he was the dude on the bridge.
Then why do witness statements describe a totally different person?
Posted on 10/31/24 at 6:55 am to POTUS2024
quote:
Then why do witness statements describe a totally different person?
Not all have.
Posted on 10/31/24 at 6:58 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Not all have.
They should all be identical (or at least very close) if he's Bridge Guy. The descriptions are wildly divergent and LE admitted to this.
Posted on 10/31/24 at 7:01 am to POTUS2024
Watching Andrea Burkhart's latest video - it's long. Right out of the gate she says the prosecution is expected to conclude its presentation of the case tomorrow.
This post was edited on 10/31/24 at 7:02 am
Posted on 10/31/24 at 7:45 am to IlikeyouBetty
quote:
It's still a leap for me to think that this could be his first killing, but stranger things have happened.
If the use of genetic genealogy has shown us anything over the last few years, it’s that there are many instances of people with no documented history of violence who commit horrible murders, only to go on and live relatively normal lives afterward; never re-offending. If you’re wired somewhat normally, it’s just a hard fact to grasp.
Posted on 10/31/24 at 7:51 am to POTUS2024
quote:
2) 'I did something with the gun, I guess that's where the bullet came from', this is a huge red flag, IMO. He knows how guns work
This is what gives me a bit of pause on that confession. He claims that he did something with the gun while on the bridge and that’s what caused the bullet ejection but that doesn’t make sense because the bullet was found near the bodies, not under the bridge.
Posted on 10/31/24 at 9:15 am to Epic Cajun
Did he go to the bridge looking for someone to rape?
Why would he bring a gun and a box cutter with him?
He couldn't have known he was going to find anyone to rape or kill, so I guess he just got lucky when he saw the girls.
Trying to make sense out how this went down and the "coincidence?" that he came upon the girls and decided he wanted to rape.
Has there been any testimony regarding what was found on his computer or other devices?
Why would he bring a gun and a box cutter with him?
He couldn't have known he was going to find anyone to rape or kill, so I guess he just got lucky when he saw the girls.
Trying to make sense out how this went down and the "coincidence?" that he came upon the girls and decided he wanted to rape.
Has there been any testimony regarding what was found on his computer or other devices?
Posted on 10/31/24 at 9:20 am to Gris Gris
quote:
Has there been any testimony regarding what was found on his computer or other devices?
Not yet. But it still seems fishy to me that these girls were being catfished by Kegan Kline on the same morning that they go to the bridge and get murdered.
Posted on 10/31/24 at 9:21 am to Gris Gris
To me the biggest revelation yesterday was him supposedly admitting to being scared by a white van driving towards the adjacent property just south of where the abduction took place.
There seemed to be some inconsistencies about Brad Weber's timeline about when he returned home that day in the van.
There seemed to be some inconsistencies about Brad Weber's timeline about when he returned home that day in the van.
Posted on 10/31/24 at 9:31 am to Epic Cajun
Yeah- I had always assumed that this guy and KK had a little group of pedophiles where they shared pics and videos. KK let them know that the girls would be on the bridge, and RA took his shot.
Posted on 10/31/24 at 9:39 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
But it still seems fishy to me that these girls were being catfished by Kegan Kline on the same morning that they go to the bridge and get murdered.
Okay, I totally missed anything about that. Was there testimony about this? I need to look this up. Only one of them had a phone, right?
Posted on 10/31/24 at 9:51 am to Gris Gris
quote:
Okay, I totally missed anything about that. Was there testimony about this? I need to look this up. Only one of them had a phone, right?
No testimony about it yet. I believe the defense is going to bring Kegan Kline in as a witness, but I don't know if it was ruled that it can be brought up.
Back in like 2021 (I believe that was the year) there was an investigation into this guy named Kegan Kline who had a snapchat name of Anthony Shots. "Anthony Shots" was conversing with several underaged girls and getting them to send nude photos of themselves to him. One of the girls that Anthony Shots was conversing with was Libby German. I believe it was found that he was talking to them the day of the murders. There has been speculation that Richard Allen may have been part of a group that Kegan Kline was in and that was how he knew the girls were going to be at the bridge that day. That it wasn't just a crime of opportunity, but he was there waiting for them. There has been zero evidence linking Richard Allen to Kegan Kline, but it's pretty wild and awful luck that they would be getting catfished by one predator and murdered by another with zero relation between the two perpetrators.
Posted on 10/31/24 at 9:56 am to POTUS2024
quote:
They should all be identical (or at least very close) if he's Bridge Guy. The descriptions are wildly divergent and LE admitted to this.
Once again, there's no witness's to the actual crime. What you are saying is irrelevant for all intents and purposes. There's no evidence of anyone at the crime scene including Allen.
There are witness reports that there MAY have been someone else on the trail that day. End of story.
You are trying to make a major assumption that this other person was more likely to be the one that did the crime, even though there's no evidence anyone else was both actually even on the trail nor at the crime scene. Its ludicrous.
Posted on 10/31/24 at 10:15 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
No testimony about it yet. I believe the defense is going to bring Kegan Kline in as a witness, but I don't know if it was ruled that it can be brought up.
Back in like 2021 (I believe that was the year) there was an investigation into this guy named Kegan Kline who had a snapchat name of Anthony Shots. "Anthony Shots" was conversing with several underaged girls and getting them to send nude photos of themselves to him. One of the girls that Anthony Shots was conversing with was Libby German. I believe it was found that he was talking to them the day of the murders. There has been speculation that Richard Allen may have been part of a group that Kegan Kline was in and that was how he knew the girls were going to be at the bridge that day. That it wasn't just a crime of opportunity, but he was there waiting for them. There has been zero evidence linking Richard Allen to Kegan Kline, but it's pretty wild and awful luck that they would be getting catfished by one predator and murdered by another with zero relation between the two perpetrators.
Thanks. That's pretty wild. I wonder if they found anything on Libby's phone or computer with regard to their communications.
Posted on 10/31/24 at 10:40 am to POTUS2024
quote:
Watching Andrea Burkhart's latest video - it's long.
Five and a half hours. Holy shite.
I've only been surface-level monitoring this thread. Where are things currently with the trial and everything? How sure are they (or you guys in this thread) that the dude arrested (Allen) is the killer? I would assume it's pretty assumed at this point that it is him..?
Posted on 10/31/24 at 11:40 am to CocomoLSU
Initial summary of today's testimony so far.
State's 40th witness, Indiana State Police Master Trooper Brian Harshman
The state's 40th witness was Indiana State Police Master Trooper Brian Harshman, who has been with ISP for 30 years and started in the Delphi case in April 2020. Harshman monitored Allen's calls from the county jail, Department of Corrections and Cass County Jail. That included telephone calls, video chats and texts.
Harshman reviewed about 700 Richard Allen calls. He said most were around 30 minutes and that he spent an "unsurmountable" amount of time listening to calls from Richard Allen to his wife and mother.
Regarding a Nov. 14, 2022 call from Richard Allen to his wife, Kathy, Harshman said Richard Allen tells his wife, "If this becomes too much for you, call the detectives and I'll tell them whatever they want to know."
Nov, 14, 2022 call from Richard Allen to Kathy (about five minutes):
Richard Allen says, "I love you" and is crying, sounds distraught. He tells Kathy, "I don't want you to worry about me." He says, "I'm sorry" three times while crying. He also says, "I f***ed up,", "If anything happens, I'll see you in the next life," and "Take care of the family."
April 2, 2023 call from Richard Allen to his mother Janice (about nine minutes):
Harshman said Allen confesses to killing Abby and Libby, and tells his mother he has found Jesus and God.
During the call, Allen initially sounds upbeat and positive and asks his mother if she's going to church that day. Allen then cries and asks his mother, "Did Kathy tell you I told her that I accepted the lord Jesus Christ as my savior?" He also say, "I've got a family that's always going to love me no matter what," and "I know we're all going to be back together eventually." He also says, "I didn't accept God into my life until March 21, 2023."
12 p.m. - On Thursday, Richard Allen entered the courtroom wearing a blue shirt with white pinstripes, khaki pants and glasses on the top of his head. The prosecutor replaced three media seats with three state seats, leading to confusion.
Judge Frances Gull entered the courtroom just after 9 a.m.
Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland said he is entering jailhouse calls today, and jurors would hear seven phone calls from Richard Allen to Janice Allen and Kathy Allen.
Defense attorney Brad Rozzi said the state is not playing recording No. 1 and only plans to play No. 2 and 3 from April 3, 2023. He objected based on the completeness doctrine.
Those three recordings were from three calls on that date. The first, from 3:12 a.m. that day, is from Richard Allen to Janice and Marvin Allen. In that call, there are no incriminating statements from Richard Allen. He says he doesn't know how much longer he can stay lucid and is losing his mind. He professes his innocence.
The other two calls, from 5:14 a.m. and 8:45 a.m., are from Richard Allen to his wife, Kathy Allen.
Rozzi said that you can't listen to the second and third calls without the context of the first call, and that the state is intentionally trying to omit that call in an attempted to present facts to the jury.
McLeland responded that based on that logic, you'd have to play every call Richard Allen ever made. McLeland said the defense can call Richard Allen and play the first call.
Rozzi responded that it's unfair to expect Allen to waive his right not to testify due to the state's unwillingness to follow evidentiary rules. "It's one of those situations where you play all or you play none."
Gull said she doesn't believe the doctrine of completeness applies, because each of the two calls would be played from beginning to end. Baldwin said Allen references the earlier call in his later calls. Gull said she was sticking with her decision to allow the jury to hear only calls two and three.
11:30 a.m. - Thursday morning, jurors heard a number of calls from Richard Allen to his wife, in which he calmly said her that he killed Abby and Libby.
"Honey, I did it. I killed Abby and Libby," Allen said during one of the calls.
Kathy Allen repeated to her husband for him not to say that, but he continued to state he killed the girls in the call.
This is a breaking update. Check back for more.
7 a.m. - The 12th day of the trial is expected to begin at 9 a.m. Check back for updates.
During the call, Allen initially sounds upbeat and positive and asks his mother if she's going to church that day. Allen then cries and asks his mother, "Did Kathy tell you I told her that I accepted the lord Jesus Christ as my savior?" He also say, "I've got a family that's always going to love me no matter what," and "I know we're all going to be back together eventually." He also says, "I didn't accept God into my life until March 21, 2023."
12 p.m. - On Thursday, Richard Allen entered the courtroom wearing a blue shirt with white pinstripes, khaki pants and glasses on the top of his head. The prosecutor replaced three media seats with three state seats, leading to confusion.
Judge Frances Gull entered the courtroom just after 9 a.m.
Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland said he is entering jailhouse calls today, and jurors would hear seven phone calls from Richard Allen to Janice Allen and Kathy Allen.
Defense attorney Brad Rozzi said the state is not playing recording No. 1 and only plans to play No. 2 and 3 from April 3, 2023. He objected based on the completeness doctrine.
Those three recordings were from three calls on that date. The first, from 3:12 a.m. that day, is from Richard Allen to Janice and Marvin Allen. In that call, there are no incriminating statements from Richard Allen. He says he doesn't know how much longer he can stay lucid and is losing his mind. He professes his innocence.
The other two calls, from 5:14 a.m. and 8:45 a.m., are from Richard Allen to his wife, Kathy Allen.
Rozzi said that you can't listen to the second and third calls without the context of the first call, and that the state is intentionally trying to omit that call in an attempted to present facts to the jury.
McLeland responded that based on that logic, you'd have to play every call Richard Allen ever made. McLeland said the defense can call Richard Allen and play the first call.
Rozzi responded that it's unfair to expect Allen to waive his right not to testify due to the state's unwillingness to follow evidentiary rules. "It's one of those situations where you play all or you play none."
Gull said she doesn't believe the doctrine of completeness applies, because each of the two calls would be played from beginning to end. Baldwin said Allen references the earlier call in his later calls. Gull said she was sticking with her decision to allow the jury to hear only calls two and three.
11:30 a.m. - Thursday morning, jurors heard a number of calls from Richard Allen to his wife, in which he calmly said her that he killed Abby and Libby.
"Honey, I did it. I killed Abby and Libby," Allen said during one of the calls.
Kathy Allen repeated to her husband for him not to say that, but he continued to state he killed the girls in the call.
WTHR.com
The judge sure seems to side with the defense often, right or wrong, throughout the trial so far.
State's 40th witness, Indiana State Police Master Trooper Brian Harshman
The state's 40th witness was Indiana State Police Master Trooper Brian Harshman, who has been with ISP for 30 years and started in the Delphi case in April 2020. Harshman monitored Allen's calls from the county jail, Department of Corrections and Cass County Jail. That included telephone calls, video chats and texts.
Harshman reviewed about 700 Richard Allen calls. He said most were around 30 minutes and that he spent an "unsurmountable" amount of time listening to calls from Richard Allen to his wife and mother.
Regarding a Nov. 14, 2022 call from Richard Allen to his wife, Kathy, Harshman said Richard Allen tells his wife, "If this becomes too much for you, call the detectives and I'll tell them whatever they want to know."
Nov, 14, 2022 call from Richard Allen to Kathy (about five minutes):
Richard Allen says, "I love you" and is crying, sounds distraught. He tells Kathy, "I don't want you to worry about me." He says, "I'm sorry" three times while crying. He also says, "I f***ed up,", "If anything happens, I'll see you in the next life," and "Take care of the family."
April 2, 2023 call from Richard Allen to his mother Janice (about nine minutes):
Harshman said Allen confesses to killing Abby and Libby, and tells his mother he has found Jesus and God.
During the call, Allen initially sounds upbeat and positive and asks his mother if she's going to church that day. Allen then cries and asks his mother, "Did Kathy tell you I told her that I accepted the lord Jesus Christ as my savior?" He also say, "I've got a family that's always going to love me no matter what," and "I know we're all going to be back together eventually." He also says, "I didn't accept God into my life until March 21, 2023."
12 p.m. - On Thursday, Richard Allen entered the courtroom wearing a blue shirt with white pinstripes, khaki pants and glasses on the top of his head. The prosecutor replaced three media seats with three state seats, leading to confusion.
Judge Frances Gull entered the courtroom just after 9 a.m.
Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland said he is entering jailhouse calls today, and jurors would hear seven phone calls from Richard Allen to Janice Allen and Kathy Allen.
Defense attorney Brad Rozzi said the state is not playing recording No. 1 and only plans to play No. 2 and 3 from April 3, 2023. He objected based on the completeness doctrine.
Those three recordings were from three calls on that date. The first, from 3:12 a.m. that day, is from Richard Allen to Janice and Marvin Allen. In that call, there are no incriminating statements from Richard Allen. He says he doesn't know how much longer he can stay lucid and is losing his mind. He professes his innocence.
The other two calls, from 5:14 a.m. and 8:45 a.m., are from Richard Allen to his wife, Kathy Allen.
Rozzi said that you can't listen to the second and third calls without the context of the first call, and that the state is intentionally trying to omit that call in an attempted to present facts to the jury.
McLeland responded that based on that logic, you'd have to play every call Richard Allen ever made. McLeland said the defense can call Richard Allen and play the first call.
Rozzi responded that it's unfair to expect Allen to waive his right not to testify due to the state's unwillingness to follow evidentiary rules. "It's one of those situations where you play all or you play none."
Gull said she doesn't believe the doctrine of completeness applies, because each of the two calls would be played from beginning to end. Baldwin said Allen references the earlier call in his later calls. Gull said she was sticking with her decision to allow the jury to hear only calls two and three.
11:30 a.m. - Thursday morning, jurors heard a number of calls from Richard Allen to his wife, in which he calmly said her that he killed Abby and Libby.
"Honey, I did it. I killed Abby and Libby," Allen said during one of the calls.
Kathy Allen repeated to her husband for him not to say that, but he continued to state he killed the girls in the call.
This is a breaking update. Check back for more.
7 a.m. - The 12th day of the trial is expected to begin at 9 a.m. Check back for updates.
During the call, Allen initially sounds upbeat and positive and asks his mother if she's going to church that day. Allen then cries and asks his mother, "Did Kathy tell you I told her that I accepted the lord Jesus Christ as my savior?" He also say, "I've got a family that's always going to love me no matter what," and "I know we're all going to be back together eventually." He also says, "I didn't accept God into my life until March 21, 2023."
12 p.m. - On Thursday, Richard Allen entered the courtroom wearing a blue shirt with white pinstripes, khaki pants and glasses on the top of his head. The prosecutor replaced three media seats with three state seats, leading to confusion.
Judge Frances Gull entered the courtroom just after 9 a.m.
Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland said he is entering jailhouse calls today, and jurors would hear seven phone calls from Richard Allen to Janice Allen and Kathy Allen.
Defense attorney Brad Rozzi said the state is not playing recording No. 1 and only plans to play No. 2 and 3 from April 3, 2023. He objected based on the completeness doctrine.
Those three recordings were from three calls on that date. The first, from 3:12 a.m. that day, is from Richard Allen to Janice and Marvin Allen. In that call, there are no incriminating statements from Richard Allen. He says he doesn't know how much longer he can stay lucid and is losing his mind. He professes his innocence.
The other two calls, from 5:14 a.m. and 8:45 a.m., are from Richard Allen to his wife, Kathy Allen.
Rozzi said that you can't listen to the second and third calls without the context of the first call, and that the state is intentionally trying to omit that call in an attempted to present facts to the jury.
McLeland responded that based on that logic, you'd have to play every call Richard Allen ever made. McLeland said the defense can call Richard Allen and play the first call.
Rozzi responded that it's unfair to expect Allen to waive his right not to testify due to the state's unwillingness to follow evidentiary rules. "It's one of those situations where you play all or you play none."
Gull said she doesn't believe the doctrine of completeness applies, because each of the two calls would be played from beginning to end. Baldwin said Allen references the earlier call in his later calls. Gull said she was sticking with her decision to allow the jury to hear only calls two and three.
11:30 a.m. - Thursday morning, jurors heard a number of calls from Richard Allen to his wife, in which he calmly said her that he killed Abby and Libby.
"Honey, I did it. I killed Abby and Libby," Allen said during one of the calls.
Kathy Allen repeated to her husband for him not to say that, but he continued to state he killed the girls in the call.
WTHR.com
The judge sure seems to side with the defense often, right or wrong, throughout the trial so far.
Posted on 10/31/24 at 11:57 am to Gris Gris
quote:
Gull said she doesn't believe the doctrine of completeness applies, because each of the two calls would be played from beginning to end. Baldwin said Allen references the earlier call in his later calls. Gull said she was sticking with her decision to allow the jury to hear only calls two and three.
She is such a shitbird.
ETA: It's absurd that she was allowed to preside over the case after attempting to get the defense attorneys thrown off of the case and having to be overruled.
This post was edited on 10/31/24 at 11:59 am
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