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re: Crazy Religious-type dream....and I'm not religious....
Posted on 4/9/15 at 3:15 pm to Paluka
Posted on 4/9/15 at 3:15 pm to Paluka
quote:
I didn't claim or express whether I even have specific religious or spiritual beliefs. Nice assumption.
Sorry, I should have made it clear that I was referring to an understood "you." That's on me. I am merely questioning your postulate in the context of religious argument. Nothing about your post led me to think that you have inviolable religious beliefs.
quote:
You can use your debating class tactics if you wish but the world is in no way based on simple logic. The majority of the world is not black or white. You'd likely argue in favor of situational ethics rather than absolute ethics even though you take what amounts to the opposite position in your arguments here.
It's not "debating class tactics," its simple reasoning. One cannot make a hard claim about the truth of something and then claim that man cannot understand the reasons why that contention is, in fact, the truth. The speaker himself is, afterall, a man. It is akin to me saying "I know for a fact that the Loch Ness Monster lives in Berwick Bay, but no tools known to man or our senses can ever really discover it. It is beyond out ken."
quote:
I am sure you believe in many things that are not directly able to be proven. You deal in probabilities of being correct and others use Faith. Both require a degree of faith in what one believes in and neither has to be mutually exclusive. Let me know what the clouds look like.
Well, if we want to get down to the nitty gritty philosophy of what is and is not knowledge, I guess you are correct. For example. I am 99.99999999999% certain that jumping out of my office window will cause me to plunge to the earth via gravity.
It is also possible that I am nothing more than a brain stored in a vat and fed electrical impulses that cause me to experience what I perceive as life. I could be living in the Matrix.
However, I believe that I am not a brain in a vat and that I am almost certainly a primate living on earth. That being said, it takes some small, infinitesimal amount of faith to believe that.
Religion is very different. Religion doesn't ask for just a little faith. Religion asks you to suspend your natural, logical system of thought in order to accept things that have very little, if any, basis in real evidence. Not all decisions based on "faith" are equivalent.
Moreover, the things that I have "faith" in can all be falsified, or at least I'm willing to have them falsified, if needs be. Granted, there are a few people here who will admit that they believe in a god, but are not 100% certain of its existence. Most will claim that they know such a deity is real and would not part with that conclusion regardless of the evidence presented.
Simply put, yes, everyone relies on faith to some degree in every day life. But some of us rely on faith WAAAAYYYY more than the rest of us, which is a practice that we generally try to avoid in every area of life besides religion and certain interpersonal relationships.
They are not two equally valuable methods of approaching the world, in my opinion.
This post was edited on 4/9/15 at 4:58 pm
1
Posted on 4/9/15 at 3:15 pm to marinebioman
quote:
Until I realized that I was looking for reasons not to believe and ignoring the signs that Jesus has already given me, I could never fully find peace as a Christian.
Very well stated.
Posted on 4/9/15 at 3:17 pm to Gr8t8s
Had a dream yesterday where 16 year old me owned one of these.
I count it as a religious dream.
I count it as a religious dream.
Posted on 4/9/15 at 3:22 pm to marinebioman
quote:
Why is it that people demand more to believe in God than they require to believe in basically anything else?
Because it is literally fantastical. If I came to you as a fellow scientist and swore that the Native American myths about the world sitting upon the back of a giant turtle were true, wouldn't you require, like, some pretty F'n strong evidence?
I'm not saying this as someone who specifically dislikes the Christian worldview and culture. I'm just trying to illustrate how crazy it sounds to someone who was not raised with it from birth.
Eating flesh and blood of the savior?
Three-part god?
Must accept the myth for salvation?
I mean, if you weren't raised around this and it were thrust upon you as an adult, you would likely say "uhhh, this is kind of strange..." Americans have the same reaction to Hinduism.
This post was edited on 4/9/15 at 3:27 pm
Posted on 4/9/15 at 3:26 pm to Boondock Saint
quote:
It's just a fricking dream. It doesn't mean anything. I have crazy fricked up dreams all the time. Then I wake up and don't ever think about them again.
Posted on 4/9/15 at 3:31 pm to marinebioman
quote:
Why is it that people demand more to believe in God than they require to believe in basically anything else?
You've got this completely backwards...
Posted on 4/9/15 at 3:34 pm to bamafan1001
quote:
The wheel is the distractions of life. The demons/devil are spinning you and whispering in your ear to confuse you and to distract you from the cross. I think the small crosses are the Christians around you. The light is your time running out.
The absurd things the devil is communicating to you are that you are ok just being a good guy and a good father and that you live ok.
The problem is, your standard for "good" in God's eyes is Jesus Christ, making you not so good and condemned.
HOWEVER, the big cross in your dreams represents the grace that Jesus provided by that very cross. You cant "good' your way to salvation. There is no righteous path that you must follow to earn salvation. You simply need to get off the wheel.
You pretty much nailed that one. Thanks for posting.
Posted on 4/9/15 at 3:39 pm to Tigerlaff
quote:
like, some pretty F'n strong evidence?
And yet, the Bible has demonstrably 100% credible evidence of it's own authenticity and people like you either a) don't care to investigate it or b) actively choose not to investigate it.
I get it, it's way more common to belittle or deny what's there... for any number of reasons.
Funny thing, that book even tells you that will happen too.
Posted on 4/9/15 at 3:40 pm to Gr8t8s
Are you really asking if this was a spiritual dream or not?
Posted on 4/9/15 at 3:43 pm to Gr8t8s
quote:
Gr8t8s
This dream obviously freaked you out. I would not just shrug your shoulders and forget it ever happened. Pray and go to church. Talk to a preacher or priest. Tell them about your dream. They will listen. Be open minded to what they have to say. Treat this dream as a blessing and take full advantage of where it might lead you.
Posted on 4/9/15 at 3:46 pm to Meauxjeaux
quote:
And yet, the Bible has demonstrably 100% credible evidence of it's own authenticity
Wait...what? so now we're claiming The bible is inerrant?
This ought to be good...
Posted on 4/9/15 at 4:00 pm to Meauxjeaux
quote:
And yet, the Bible has demonstrably 100% credible evidence of it's own authenticity and people like you either a) don't care to investigate it or b) actively choose not to investigate it.
What does this even mean? There are tons of varying scholarly opinions on which parts of the Bible are accurate reflections of real history and which are not. Are you saying that because the Bible contains references to some real events that it is 100% true? Or are you saying that the authors of the various texts are definitively known, credible, and correct? And which Bible are we talking about here? Some contain texts that others do not. Some have had entire books excised from them.
The Bible is evidence that Christianity is a real religion and that people lived in it and wrote about it in their time. I'm not trying to disprove the existence of Jesus, here. The Bible is certainly not proof that the son of god was born to a virgin in the Levant any more than the Koran is authoritative proof that Mohammed ascended into heaven while visiting the desert.
quote:
I get it, it's way more common to belittle or deny what's there... for any number of reasons.
It is not belittling to question something. I just don't think it makes much sense. It doesn't add up. Neither do homeopathy or crystal skulls. I'm sorry if that offends you. I am not trying to personally attack anyone.
quote:
Funny thing, that book even tells you that will happen too.
It's a book. It says a lot of things. It also says things that never happened. If I were writing it, I would write the exact same thing.
"Anyone who doesn't believe in Tigerlaff's reasoning shall be cast into banland by the admins, despite the fact that they think themselves right. So says almighty God!"
Boom. Instant fear and authority, two building blocks that religions have used incredibly well to sustain themselves. I get that you believe it it. Good for you, I hope it makes you happy and improves your life. You just don't get to live in a world (anymore) where such beliefs cannot be questioned in a public manner. I have genuinely studied religion and found it lacking for my own purposes.
Posted on 4/9/15 at 4:02 pm to Meauxjeaux
quote:
And yet, the Bible has demonstrably 100% credible evidence of it's own authenticity and people like you either a) don't care to investigate it or b) actively choose not to investigate it.
Are you fricking crazy? You do realize the bible is mostly fiction.
Give some links to where this has been investigated..
This post was edited on 4/9/15 at 4:04 pm
Posted on 4/9/15 at 4:23 pm to Boondock Saint
Please list sources for your claim that the Bible is mostly fiction please. And by sources I mean impartial, factual ones. Thanks!
Posted on 4/9/15 at 4:28 pm to marinebioman
quote:
Please list sources for your claim that the Bible is mostly fiction please. And by sources I mean impartial, factual ones. Thanks!
Enjoy the read! Please click on the links in the article which cites the sources. They are all impartial facts with many references.
Bible is Fiction
ETA: There were many "Jesus" stories before the one accepted by Christians, but this is one of may favorites......see any similarities??
quote:
Dionysus was literally the “Son of God”, was born of a virgin mother, and was commonly depicted riding a donkey. He healed the sick and turned water to wine. He was killed but was resurrected and became immortal. His greatest accomplishment was his own death, which delivers humanity itself.
ETA: In case you don't read the whole article, please read this and logically think about it:
quote:
Logic Sets In
Many are familiar with Occam’s Razor, which states that, all things being equal, one should not seek complex explanations when more simple ones are available. No one disputes that these other stories predate the Judeo-Christian Bible, so we really only have two options:
quote:
1. The religious explanation is that while the other stories were very much the same as those in the Bible, they are all false. But when they occur in the Bible (despite it being much the same content), this time the stories are true. One explanation of the resemblances to the earlier myths is that Satan created them to lead people astray from the true Messiah that would come much later. So essentially, an ultra-powerful and evil being (Created by God) influenced humanity to create deceptive stories — thousands of years before the real version — so that people wouldn’t believe the real thing when they saw it.
quote:
2. The alternative explanation is that the nature of storytelling during the period was such that central themes propagated through time. This combined with the natural tendency to have certain repeating elements in human stories, and the fact that the Bible stories came after the other ones, explains the similarities to previous myths. And since the stories of worldwide floods, virgin births, and people rising from the dead that the Bible is based on were false to begin with (which everyone agrees on) — they are also false in the Bible. In short, the Bible is simply another iteration of the same themes that came long before it.
Which of these two explanations makes more sense to you?
This post was edited on 4/9/15 at 4:47 pm
Posted on 4/9/15 at 4:54 pm to Tigerlaff
quote:
Tigerlaff
Thank you for a very well-stated response. I sincerely appreciate it.
Posted on 4/9/15 at 4:54 pm to Boondock Saint
Hey man, I used to think that until some spirits or whatever started playing musical chairs in my living room.
THEY responded to the name Jesus. Proof enough for me and mine
THEY responded to the name Jesus. Proof enough for me and mine
Posted on 4/9/15 at 4:58 pm to BigEdLSU
quote:
THEY responded to the name Jesus. Proof enough for me and mine
Did you even read the article? Obviously not. Go on believing in fairy tales. As they say "Ignorance is Bliss". Enjoy your life.
Posted on 4/9/15 at 5:02 pm to Paluka
quote:
Thank you for a very well-stated response. I sincerely appreciate it.
Right back atcha, boss.
Posted on 4/9/15 at 5:04 pm to BigEdLSU
quote:
THEY responded to the name Jesus. Proof enough for me and mine
Hispanic ghosts? Weird.
I kid.
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