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re: Construction Management - Commercial vs Residential
Posted on 4/11/23 at 9:03 pm to Witty_Username
Posted on 4/11/23 at 9:03 pm to Witty_Username
no offense but anyone can estimate
all it is is math
we are 99% subcontracted. Add the numbers up and tell me what the total is. The value is in the subcontractor relationships and the negotiated work. I need sales people for that not accountants
all it is is math
we are 99% subcontracted. Add the numbers up and tell me what the total is. The value is in the subcontractor relationships and the negotiated work. I need sales people for that not accountants
5
Posted on 4/11/23 at 9:06 pm to Carson123987
I'm interested too see what you have moved onto. I work for one of the largest heavy civil contractors in the US and some days I want to walk away from it. I have 20 years project management and estimating experience. The money is great but somedays I wonder if it is really worth it all.
Posted on 4/11/23 at 9:20 pm to cgrand
quote:
no offense but anyone can estimate
all it is is math
we are 99% subcontracted. Add the numbers up and tell me what the total is.
You just confirmed my suspicion I get sometimes that the GC never even opened the drawings to look at what they're bidding. I hope you really really trust your subs not to miss something.
Posted on 4/11/23 at 9:29 pm to Capital Cajun
quote:
My last project was 350 units in 11 buildings and I had 32 RFI’s.
Then you did not document properly IMO. Granted Garden Style deals are straightforward after you get through the sitework, but still I have had my PEs write confirming RFIs for coordination meetings and such.
Back to the OPs post, Commercial (more particularly Multi Family) is where the money is at.
I’m a scheduler for a High Rise Builder here in Florida FWIW.
Posted on 4/11/23 at 9:32 pm to LSBoosie
quote:
Since I only have to provide a price for 1 trade, I've always wondered what it would be like estimating for a GC. I figure it would be quite a bit more stressful because you have to confirm all the scopes of all your trades and make sure there are no gaps. I could see where that could get stressful.
It's horrible dude. You have clients like Linde who want you to get 10 different subs and all of the sub scopes each have 5 different specs that are 100pgs each and they expect you to read through and abide by them fully. And that's in addition to the 1000-2000 drawings for self performed work that you have to take off. And then they want you to do all of that in 2.5 weeks and turn in your proposal with 12 deliverables and a fully loaded schedule
It's insane how shitty the clients have gotten in such a short time period. They've realized they can just send you these giant zip folders with 0 organization and a million deliverables and people will still bend over backwards to get back a number. When I first started, the deadlines were always reasonable, the packages were well assembled, and you had 2-3 deliverables at most (a proposal letter with clarifications, a prelim schedule, and a simple bid breakdown. Now it's a complete nightmare
quote:
What are you getting into now?
Nothing. I'm taking a month or two off and doing whatever tf I want. Had 200 hours of PTO banked that I got paid out for, I'm single, and I'm burnt out. Perfect time. Nice going to the gym every day whenever I want and cooking every single meal
This post was edited on 4/11/23 at 9:53 pm
Posted on 4/11/23 at 9:35 pm to Carson123987
quote:
It's insane how shitty the clients have gotten in such a short time period. They've realized they can just send you these giant zip folders with 0 organization and a million deliverables and people will still bend over backwards to get back a number.
Dude it’s stupid now what my about to be previous company had us put the time into provide a hard bid for stuff that we were not under precon agreement for. We got concept drawings with maybe a Geotechnical Report and were expected to produce a full CPM with qualifications.
Posted on 4/11/23 at 9:36 pm to LSBoosie
quote:
. Easier to explain a frickup to a housewife than an engineer/owner that knows more about what you’re putting in than you do though.
Facts dude. I met a guy when we went out some friends, said he was a residential super. I was talking about the pros and cons of industrial and he was like "You think that's bad? Imagine dealing with a rich doctor and his wife who know nothing about construction"
I said "Dude don't make me laugh. Imagine getting crucified by a team of engineers with pHDs that know infinitely more about what you're building than you do. I could handle some douchebag doctor and his bitch wife in my sleep." Of course he got bugle lips and tried to walk it back, I was like come on dude. Could run a residential job in my spare time
This post was edited on 4/11/23 at 9:43 pm
Posted on 4/11/23 at 9:42 pm to ColoradoTiger1987
quote:
Dude it’s stupid now what my about to be previous company had us put the time into provide a hard bid for stuff that we were not under precon agreement for. We got concept drawings with maybe a Geotechnical Report and were expected to produce a full CPM with qualifications.
Yeah dude, it's fricking ridiculous. You have to fight back on shite like that or the clients will continue to get worse
I was estimating a big project in Arizona a few months ago ($100M+) and the RFP consisted of 2200 files in total. Nothing organized into folders, every file was labeled something like "&CWS-M3-0016-05." I ran a directory list macro and the total page count was just over 15,000. One of the giant pieces of equipment we had to install had an installation manual that was 1400 pages long. Over 400 pieces of process equipment total, tens of thousands of feet of pipe, thousands of tons of steel.
They gave me a month to bid it.
I got on that pre-bid call with all the other contractors and said "soooo are yall gonna give us a 6wk or 8wk extension?" They gave us 2 lol. I knew right then that I was going to hang it up in the near future.
In 6 years, we went through 31 people total. In 6 years, I was the last person left from the original team when I started. Next closest tenured person had 4 years
It's a meat grinder
This post was edited on 4/12/23 at 7:10 pm
Posted on 4/11/23 at 9:44 pm to LSBoosie
How good are you at herding cats? That’s 95% of residential
Posted on 4/11/23 at 9:45 pm to Witty_Username
quote:we usually don’t bid. We negotiate. On the stuff we do bid it’s an invited list and I know those drawings up down and sideways. That’s how I know which sub quote to use and which to toss.
You just confirmed my suspicion I get sometimes that the GC never even opened the drawings to look at what they're bidding. I hope you really really trust your subs not to miss something.
If you want to make real money in construction get out of the mega projects and go to work for a small commercial GC. Your life and your wallet will improve immediately
Posted on 4/11/23 at 9:47 pm to Carson123987
When they give you that type of deadline, the amount of qualifications you have to make is insane and then ultimately picked apart by the client.
Posted on 4/11/23 at 9:50 pm to LSBoosie
This is not the place for career advice; or any advice. You need to know the answer to the question before you ask it.
Posted on 4/11/23 at 9:51 pm to Witty_Username
quote:
You just confirmed my suspicion I get sometimes that the GC never even opened the drawings to look at what they're bidding. I hope you really really trust your subs not to miss something.
Depending on the product type being built a good GC should know the right questions to ask. All the design teams do now a days is copy/paste their details from previous projects.
It comes down to logistics and efficiency in the end which gets overlooked a lot of the time.
Posted on 4/11/23 at 9:51 pm to cgrand
quote:
cgrand
I see your signs all the time and always ponder giving you a call. Seriously considering getting out of industrial altogether
Posted on 4/11/23 at 9:51 pm to Carson123987
I think that’s a lot of why I got curious about residential. I’m on a design-build right now and between the owner adds, changes, and rushed schedule in general it’s turned into a shitshow. I’m still young and have a long life of working ahead of me, but I don’t know if I want to be dealing with projects like that for the next 40+ years.
I’ll throw in that I’m also planning on moving out of state within the year, so I feel like that’s be a good time to pivot with a new job.
I’ll throw in that I’m also planning on moving out of state within the year, so I feel like that’s be a good time to pivot with a new job.
This post was edited on 4/11/23 at 9:53 pm
Posted on 4/11/23 at 9:52 pm to cgrand
quote:
If you want to make real money in construction get out of the mega projects and go to work for a small commercial GC. Your life and your wallet will improve immediately
So I just made a move to southwest Louisiana and took a PM job with a small commercial GC that looks like what you described.
No new construction/long term builds… only renovations and small jobs for big National brands like Walmart and such.. I really think
I’m gonna like the pace and scope of work much better than trying to get bogged down on huge jobs.
Posted on 4/11/23 at 9:53 pm to Carson123987
come talk to me
Posted on 4/11/23 at 9:54 pm to LSBoosie
quote:
I think that’s a lot of why I got curious about residential. I’m on a design-build right now and between the owner adds, changes, and rushed schedule in general it’s turned into a shitshow. I’m still young and have a long life of working ahead of me, but I don’t know if I want to be dealing with projects like that for the next 40+ years.
If you are working with a good team and have someone out there who teaches you, it will be good for you.
Posted on 4/11/23 at 9:56 pm to captdalton
quote:
You need to know the answer to the question before you ask it.
What does this even mean?
quote:
This is not the place for career advice; or any advice.
There’s people all over this board with experience in all types of stuff. I like to hear other people’s thoughts and perspectives on things.
Posted on 4/11/23 at 9:57 pm to cgrand
quote:
we usually don’t bid. We negotiate.
The sub I work for actually has a similar philosophy. Probably 80% of our work is negotiated at the DD level of drawings. We generally come on as a "trade partner" very early to help guide the design of the structure to best suit the project. Works out really well for estimating too because we're not just throwing darts hoping we land a bullseye every once in a while.
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