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re: Can anyone Identify this military style LSU cap?

Posted on 1/18/24 at 7:05 pm to
Posted by BRgetthenet
Member since Oct 2011
117720 posts
Posted on 1/18/24 at 7:05 pm to
Could it have been the drum major?
They usually have something to differentiate themselves. I just don’t know if ROTC had drum majors then, or if it was customary to give them a completely different uniform.
Posted by Tiger Ryno
#WoF
Member since Feb 2007
103099 posts
Posted on 1/18/24 at 7:09 pm to
Our Sargent at arms wears a similar cap
Posted by lsubkd
Madisonville
Member since Aug 2005
1362 posts
Posted on 1/18/24 at 7:39 pm to
Could be. They did have drum majors after 1946 I believe is the date they broke away from ROTC but the uniforms remained military until 1958. They had drum majors previous but it was earlier before Huey P. Long was assassinated. After he was killed LSU went back to military and therefore had ROTC Band Officers.

This is an excerpt from the book Kingfish U:

In January 1931, LSU announced new band uniforms that maintained the unit's military bearing while introducing additional elements, including aiguillettes— a braided, gold cord resembling the French decoration for valor-which looped over the players' left shoulders. The military-style caps were now made of purple cloth and trimmed with gold braid. Around their coats, members wore a gold belt.*
110 | KINGFISH U

But this cap is later than 1930's.
See 1935 and 1945 (this one is close)But neither are it. I can't find any good pics from 1949-1958. [url=https://postimg.cc/sBRNYgBp] [/url] [url=https://postimg.cc/H82YghfN] [/url] [url=https://postimg.cc/H8HYFgP5] [/url]




This post was edited on 1/18/24 at 7:47 pm
Posted by lsubkd
Madisonville
Member since Aug 2005
1362 posts
Posted on 1/18/24 at 7:53 pm to
quote:

Can’t help you but that’s a cool piece of history.


It really is. I collect WWII medals and anything vintage LSU and in 30 years I've never come across another cap or the LSU officer's insignia ever again. I just wish it could be identified.
Something else I found not long ago that's kind of cool.
[/url] [url=https://postimg.cc/RNtFhgwN] [/url] [/img]
Posted by deernaes
Member since Dec 2019
724 posts
Posted on 1/18/24 at 8:36 pm to
quote:

Ask a military sub on reddit. People on there are very retarded.

FIFY...
Posted by FlyingTiger06
Bossier City, LA
Member since Nov 2004
1886 posts
Posted on 1/18/24 at 9:23 pm to
Have you reached out to the Cadets of the Ole War Skule organization?
Posted by lsubkd
Madisonville
Member since Aug 2005
1362 posts
Posted on 1/18/24 at 9:53 pm to
quote:

Have you reached out to the Cadets of the Ole War Skule organization?


Not yet. I have reached out to the LSU Brookshire Military Museum, LSU archivist at the library, LSU band chapter of history and alumni secretary and Ms. Faye Phillips who wrote A History of LSU’s Marching Band. Ms. Phillips has so clue and gave me her contacts at LSU. She retired from the library. It seems there's a gap in everything documented publicly related to the band from 1946 - 1958. Probably bc the football team was terrible and enrollment was super low after WWII. All these guys are looking. It's piqued their interest as well. It's certainly some ranking member it belonged to. I'll reach out to the Ole War Skule organization as well. I appreciate your input.
Posted by Wolfhound45
Hanging with Chicken in Lurkistan
Member since Nov 2009
120000 posts
Posted on 1/18/24 at 10:26 pm to
quote:

Can anyone Identify this military style LSU cap?
By construction, it appears to be an interwar period (1919-1939) dress hat for an Army officer. Surplus items would have been used by ROTC programs. A commissioned officer example from that same time period (very similar in structure to the one in your picture) can be found at this eBay auction that has concluded.
Posted by lsubkd
Madisonville
Member since Aug 2005
1362 posts
Posted on 1/19/24 at 12:14 am to
quote:

construction, it appears to be an interwar period (1919-1939) dress hat for an Army officer. Surplus items would have been used by ROTC programs. A commissioned officer example from that same time period (very similar in structure to the one in your picture) can be found at this eBay auction that has concluded.


Definitely a later period but agree that it's an officer's by insignia. The issue is the maker of the hat being only known to make band uniforms, the gold cord and color of the hat doesn't match LSU ROTC colors.
Examples are these hats are much closer. Same maker and are band director or band officer designed. Just trying to figure out what group wore this at LSU. Plus if you look at LSU pics from the period they were very in line with the US Army..probably not using band caps with incorrect colors. LSU's ROTC was pretty on point back in those days. Plus the maker only wasn't in business that early on...I believe they started in 1940.

[/url] [url=https://postimg.cc/DSKny7xJ] [/url][/img]
This post was edited on 1/19/24 at 12:24 am
Posted by Rebel
Graceland
Member since Jan 2005
131398 posts
Posted on 1/19/24 at 12:23 am to
I bet Butch knows the answer to this.
Posted by LSUDad
Still on the move
Member since May 2004
58800 posts
Posted on 1/19/24 at 1:11 am to
quote:

I bet Butch knows the answer to this.


I’m sending him a note now. He’ll read it in the morning.
Posted by lsubkd
Madisonville
Member since Aug 2005
1362 posts
Posted on 1/19/24 at 1:25 am to


quote:

I’m sending him a note now. He’ll read it in the morning.


Appreciate it.
Posted by TheDude321
Member since Sep 2005
3159 posts
Posted on 1/19/24 at 1:31 am to
quote:

It appears to be late 40's - 50's.


*ignores tag inside hat that reads: "1 Apr 13"*
Posted by lsubkd
Madisonville
Member since Aug 2005
1362 posts
Posted on 1/19/24 at 2:13 am to
quote:

ignores tag inside hat that reads: "1 Apr 13"*


Definitely didn't ignore it. I'm not sure what date that would be? Can't be 1913 nor 2013. Company wasn't in business on either date. If the "1" is the year...what year would that represent?
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89551 posts
Posted on 1/19/24 at 8:51 am to
quote:

Plus the maker only wasn't in business that early on...I believe they started in 1940.



Clearly their heyday was in the 1950s, but I think they date back earlier than that, early/mid-30s, if not a little earlier. Perhaps they were still small/regional pre-war, but I think this company got involved with band uniforms as early as mid-30s.
Posted by Swamp Angel
Georgia
Member since Jul 2004
7304 posts
Posted on 1/19/24 at 10:02 am to
That's the insignia device worn on the cover (cap/hat) of students in the ROTC program in the 1940s and 50s. I still have Dad's cap device somewhere around the house with a bunch of his old game tickets, a few textbooks and notebooks, and photos from his days at LSU. He graduated in 1954 and was Sr Cadet Colonel/Corps Commander his senior year. (Four diamonds on the shoulders as opposed to three due to the size of LSU's ROTC contingency in those days. Someone wanted to call the rank "Cadet General" but Dad said that sounded stupid. No cadet should even remotely be considered to hold a rank with "general" in it, so it was settled upon as "Senior Cadet Colonel.)

Okay - sorry for the tangent. It's a part of the uniform worn by ROTC cadets from 1947 through about 1964 at LSU. After 1964, ROTC was no longer a required course for all male freshman and sophomore students and the device made for LSU's program was discontinued and replaced with a generic device more similar to the regular Army cover device.

As for the corded band, I have no idea. The cover worn by cadets had a leather band.
This post was edited on 1/19/24 at 10:06 am
Posted by lsubkd
Madisonville
Member since Aug 2005
1362 posts
Posted on 1/19/24 at 10:43 am to


quote:

That's the insignia device worn on the cover (cap/hat) of students in the ROTC program in the 1940s and 50s


No, thanks for tangent and information. Lol.
This is the reply from the Director of the LSU museum. So who flipping knows.

I am not sure about the hat. It doesn't come up in any of our uniform records. But I am interested to know more about your uncle! We are actually in the process of researching for an Iwo Jima exhibit and would love to include his story and any artifacts you may have.

Thank you,
James Gregory

Director
William A. Brookshire LSU Military Museum

Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89551 posts
Posted on 1/19/24 at 2:02 pm to
I have a new working theory/possible explanation:

Someone served in the U.S. Army in the 1940s, maybe the early 50s. Either that person OR that person's son (nephew?) was in the band at LSU in the 1950s. And they modified the band cap (explaining why it was Ostwald brand cap) with a gold strap and Army buttons from an actual Army officer's cap?
This post was edited on 1/19/24 at 2:38 pm
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89551 posts
Posted on 1/19/24 at 2:08 pm to
The plot thickens:



Now - this is very likely before the Ostwald cap could have been a factor (this picture is 28-29), but look at the up front trombone player - THAT looks reasonably like a gold/silver braid style strap as opposed to the others (other than the Drum Major of course) with the traditional, likely black leather strap we know would have been more consistent with the ordinary ROTC caps that virtually all of the students wore in the days of mandatory ROTC.

This post was edited on 1/19/24 at 2:12 pm
Posted by Sidicous
Middle of Nowhere
Member since Aug 2015
17185 posts
Posted on 1/19/24 at 2:27 pm to
Any Bowl games back in that time period? Any other really special event?

Thinking it may have been a one-off for a special occasion perhaps?
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