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re: CA law aims to force people with mental illness or addiction to get help
Posted on 10/13/23 at 3:53 pm to EarlyCuyler3
Posted on 10/13/23 at 3:53 pm to EarlyCuyler3
quote:
The key part being "in sober living."
No the key part being that just because they are addicts does not mean they have underlying major mental health issues. Many addicts make the conscious choice to do drugs that lead them down the path and do so with a sound mind.
When they are sober they are back to being able to be a functioning member of society and do not require mental health support
3
Posted on 10/13/23 at 3:54 pm to Scruffy
quote:
Psychiatric involuntary admission is somewhat more “hazy” and less defined. Evidence isn’t truly needed and the word of a psychiatrist would carry excessive weight.
Depending on the state, it can be very difficult to get someone involuntarily committed for more than a 72 hour hold. MIWs usually take awhile to process as well depending on how backed up your local court system is.
I’ve only helped someone try to obtain one once and it was denied. It was for the mother of a woman who had schizoaffective disorder who was unmedicated and having tactile and auditory hallucinations. Because she had not been to therapy for some time (shocker) and made it to a homeless shelter, the Judge said there was not enough evidence that she was a harm to herself or others.
Posted on 10/13/23 at 3:56 pm to stout
quote:
No the key part being that just because they are addicts does not mean they have underlying major mental health issues. Many addicts make the conscious choice to do drugs that lead them down the path and do so with a sound mind.
Substance use disorder in itself is a mental health disorder. If it is affecting your daily functioning it falls under that purview.
A lot of folks who have SUD often also have trauma in their past.
Posted on 10/13/23 at 3:56 pm to stout
quote:
When they are sober they are back to being able to be a functioning member of society and do not require mental health support
You don't really understand addiction.
Posted on 10/13/23 at 4:00 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
Substance use disorder in itself is a mental health disorder. If it is affecting your daily functioning it falls under that purview.
A lot of folks who have SUD often also have trauma in their past.
It makes no sense to try to say "they don't have mental health issues."
No sane person is choosing to live on the streets. Trying to make that argument is just absurd.
Posted on 10/13/23 at 4:02 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
Substance use disorder in itself is a mental health disorder
I understand
Look at my initial response where Early said most addicts are addicts due to poor mental health to begin with. That's just not true unless you forget how many addicts the medical prescription industry literally created through pain meds among other things.
A huge portion of addicts do not start out with poor mental health though that may be the end result.
Posted on 10/13/23 at 4:05 pm to stout
Most liberal state in the union going to pull a quick 180 to fascism
Posted on 10/13/23 at 4:05 pm to EarlyCuyler3
quote:
No sane person is choosing to live on the streets. Trying to make that argument is just absurd.
You don't understand addiction.
They aren't choosing to live there.
To think this way you would have to 100% ignore how many lives oxy destroyed even though a ton of normal functioning people started it under the care of their Dr with the only intention being to deal with pain from an injury and ended up dead or on the streets and in some cases both.
Posted on 10/13/23 at 4:09 pm to stout
quote:
A huge portion of addicts do not start out with poor mental health though that may be the end result.
Those are just the people that have been diagnosed. Now consider the stigma and denial that comes with mental health issues and imagine how many are undiagnosed.
Again, you don't understand what you're talking about.
Posted on 10/13/23 at 4:10 pm to stout
quote:
You don't understand addiction.
Please tell me, as a person in recovery, how I don't understand addiction.
Posted on 10/13/23 at 4:11 pm to EarlyCuyler3
quote:
Again, you don't understand what you're talking about.
Again, you are ignoring a lot
You are ignoring the whole Oxy era and pretending that still doesn't happen
You are also ignoring your own graph that says "That doesn't mean one caused the other"
Just because they end up with mental illness from drug abuse doesn't mean it started because of mental illness. To be a broken record I will again say you can only come to that conclusion if you ignore everything that happened during the Oxy era.
Posted on 10/13/23 at 4:13 pm to stout
quote:
You are ignoring the whole Oxy era and pretending that still doesn't happen
I'm not ignoring it at all. It was a huge problem. It isn't still ongoing now though. Just try getting a script for oxy now and see.
Posted on 10/13/23 at 4:13 pm to EarlyCuyler3
quote:
Please tell me, as a person in recovery, how I don't understand addiction
I was just using your phrasing on you
Just because you are in recovery doesn't mean you are correct here.
You are purposely ignoring the people who got addicted due to medical complications.
Posted on 10/13/23 at 4:15 pm to EarlyCuyler3
quote:
It isn't still ongoing now though. Just try getting a script for oxy now and see.
Yes, I know. They give non addicting pain pills now and if you get a pill that is addicting they force you to come in weekly to count how many you have taken.
Had surgery last year and just opted for Advil. I never liked pain pills even when Oxy was a thing. Took one after a root canal and threw up. Never took another one.
That doesn't mean people don't turn to street drugs to self-medicate pain. That is still a thing.
My point still disproves what you said that most only do drugs because they are already mentally ill.
The truth is there are a variety of reasons people do drugs.
This post was edited on 10/13/23 at 4:17 pm
Posted on 10/13/23 at 4:16 pm to stout
quote:
No the key part being that just because they are addicts does not mean they have underlying major mental health issues.
Correct, they live on the streets to afford drugs.
I feel for Schizophrenics, not so much for the willful abusers.
Posted on 10/13/23 at 4:16 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Correct, they live on the streets to afford drugs.
And that's totally sane behavior, right?
Posted on 10/13/23 at 4:17 pm to EarlyCuyler3
quote:
And that's totally sane behavior, right?
No one said it is. You said that most start off mentally ill, though. That is what we are saying you are wrong about.
Posted on 10/13/23 at 4:18 pm to EarlyCuyler3
quote:'
And that's totally sane behavior, right?
You argue just like a woman. Avoid truth at all costs.
Posted on 10/13/23 at 4:19 pm to stout
quote:
You said that most start off mentally ill, though.
Absolutely did, and I posted information to show how utterly full of shite he is.
Posted on 10/13/23 at 4:19 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
You argue just like a woman. Avoid truth at all costs
Must feel pretty emasculating to lose arguments to me all the time then.
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