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Started By
Message
re: Boeing 737 Crashes in China. 132 on board
Posted on 3/21/22 at 4:48 pm to Bluegrass_Cat
Posted on 3/21/22 at 4:48 pm to Bluegrass_Cat
quote:
SDF
Prayers sent
1
Posted on 3/21/22 at 4:58 pm to The Boat
Thing came down like a lawn dart.
Posted on 3/21/22 at 5:17 pm to BuckyCheese
I survived my 737 ride today. Whew.
Posted on 3/21/22 at 6:06 pm to aileron
quote:
A jammed aileron would cause an uncommanded roll, not likely a 29K ft dive. The 737 lateral control is coupled to the spoilers so in the event of a jammed aileron, lateral authority can be restored via the spoilers.
A more plausible mechanical failure would be the horizontal stabilizer actuator failed in the nose down position. Depending on the angle and speed, the elevators might not have enough authority to fly out of the dive. The 737NG's(not MAX) do occasionally have runaway stabilizers (electric motor failures) but there is a cutout switch and the crews should be trained on how to overcome it.
Juan's explanation of the same cutout switches. He also describes that there are only a few things that could cause a non-rolling near vertical dive, likely the stabilizer. Also shows a stabilizer actuator/jack screw in action.
Posted on 3/21/22 at 7:46 pm to kywildcatfanone
Negative. Flying for a personal trip today. Military duty this weekend. Out of the skies for work until April 3rd.
Posted on 3/21/22 at 7:58 pm to Bluegrass_Cat
Chinese pilots often fly with the flight deck papered up. They could have done a cfit and never known.
Posted on 3/21/22 at 8:26 pm to East Coast Band
quote:
Pilot suicide?
Vaccine
Posted on 3/21/22 at 8:27 pm to halleburton
They take the sunshades for the cockpit windows and put them up in flight. Same as the sunshades you see in car windshields. Lots of pilots do it.
Posted on 3/21/22 at 8:39 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
UPDATE from NTSB: "The NTSB has appointed a senior air safety investigator as a U.S. accredited representative to the investigation of the March 21, 2022, crash of a China Eastern Airlines Boeing 737-800 near Wuzhou, China. Representatives from Boeing, General Electric and the Federal Aviation Administration will serve as technical advisors. The Civil Aviation Administration of China (CAAC) will lead the investigation. All questions about the investigation should be directed to the CAAC."
Posted on 3/21/22 at 8:41 pm to AutoYes_Clown
Good technical summary from the video.
Posted on 3/21/22 at 8:43 pm to OchoDedos
quote:
Chinese pilots often fly with the flight deck papered up. They could have done a cfit and never known.
Source? I’ve flown extensively throughout mainland China and CEA is a reputable international carrier. It will be interesting to see if anything comes out about the pilots.
Posted on 3/21/22 at 8:43 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
No way that’s FAA approved though - line of sight and visual etc etc ??
Posted on 3/21/22 at 8:50 pm to AutoYes_Clown
quote:Watching the video now, interesting that he brought up the atlas air crash. Wasn't that a spatial disorientation issue?
Juan's explanation
So, I have a question about Juan Browne's video. Per his video, if they find the jack screw, they can see where the nut is positioned on it to see what position the stabilizer trim was in during the crash. This will be important to find out because, as he went over, single or dual engine failure, even complete electrical loss would not cause a total nosedive; so, assuming the plane was intact when it started its descent, a nosedive would indicate that something or someone was actively pushing/keeping the nose down. If they are able to find the jack screw and it shows a severe position, would that lead the investigators to conclude that it could have been suicide or pilot error due to spatial disorientation, poor training, etc. (i.e. that it was pilot-induced whether intentional or not)? Or is he implying that it could have malfunctioned and gotten stuck mechanically without pilot intervention? Are there not backup systems for that sort of thing?
This post was edited on 3/21/22 at 9:06 pm
Posted on 3/21/22 at 9:05 pm to Shankopotomus
I flew in a Q400 prop plane from Cape Town to Hoedspruit where they basically covered the window the whole time with a windshield cover because we were flying right at the sun it was bright AF.
Posted on 3/21/22 at 9:25 pm to When in Rome
quote:
So, I have a question about Juan Browne's video. Per his video, if they find the jack screw, they can see where the nut is positioned on it to see what position the stabilizer trim was in during the crash. This will be important to find out because, as he went over, single or dual engine failure, even complete electrical loss would not cause a total nosedive; so, assuming the plane was intact when it started its descent, a nosedive would indicate that something or someone was actively pushing/keeping the nose down. If they are able to find the jack screw and it shows a severe position, would that lead the investigators to conclude that it could have been suicide or pilot error due to spatial disorientation, poor training, etc. (i.e. that it was pilot-induced whether intentional or not)? Or is he implying that it could have malfunctioned and gotten stuck mechanically without pilot intervention? Are there not backup systems for that sort of thing?
Im far from the resident expert here but since I posted the video:
I think he was mentioning the Atlas crash as similar nose down, non rolling crash. Not stalling, not flying into rising terrain, etc.
Juan is saying that the nut position will indicate stabilizer position at impact, and likely during descent. The stabilizer in nose dive config would likely either be manually forced from cockpit (insert speculation here... suicide, terrorist, pilot error, etc) or a "runaway" trim condition where a mechanical or electrical malfunction forces the stabilizer full nose dive. There are manual switches to over ride a runaway condition [rewatch the cockpit still photo]. Also another tid-bit earlier in the video, he mentioned the area near the crash is also the point of where the plane would start descent (in controlled manor) from its normal flight level of 29,000ft. So to me he is stating that the plane was flying straight and level and at the point of a change in input (level flight) it went full nose dive immediately. Speculating again that malfuntion occured where only slight nose down attitude was intended but it went full lock nose down.
777, aileron, and other TD defiers of gravity can comment more accurately.
Posted on 3/21/22 at 9:33 pm to AutoYes_Clown
Thanks 
I appreciate it.
I appreciate it. Posted on 3/21/22 at 9:56 pm to AutoYes_Clown
quote:
Are there not backup systems for that sort of thing?
The stabilizer can be trimmed manually if the electric trim fails. The manual trim is via a wheel by both pilots knees. The wheel moves a cable on a drum that moves gears and eventually the jackscrew. The gear ratio is crazy so it could take dozens of turns of the trim wheel to get out of a dive. If the jackscrew is mechanically jammed then you are SOL with the stabilizer trim and can only hope for the best with the elevators.
If they find the jackscrew intact and trimmed nose down that will be a huge piece of the puzzle. IIRC the Atlas jackscrew was found trimmed nose down. The F/O thought he was in a stall so attempted to recover by pushing the control column (elevator control) and trimming the stabilizer. Unfortunately by the time he realized the mistake it was too late to recover.
The 737 is very stable and wants to fly level on its own.
Posted on 3/21/22 at 10:01 pm to aileron
quote:
IIRC the Atlas jackscrew was found trimmed nose down. The F/O thought he was in a stall so attempted to recover by pushing the control column (elevator control) and trimming the stabilizer. Unfortunately by the time he realized the mistake it was too late to recover.
If I remember correctly he inadvertently hit the go around button which command a pitch up and the autothrottles to go full forward which he then attempted to correct by flying the plane directly at the hard stuff beneath him.
Posted on 3/21/22 at 10:02 pm to aileron
Report said the plane was damaged beyond repair.
Well, n o shite.
Well, n o shite.
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