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Started By
Message
re: Bitcoin is Unsustainable
Posted on 6/1/18 at 9:55 am to Diseasefreeforall
Posted on 6/1/18 at 9:55 am to Diseasefreeforall
quote:
Quantum computing will eventually make current cryptography obsolete and destroy cryptocurrencies, it's inevitable. So might not be a good idea to count on bitcoin being around 5-10 years from now.
Like satoshi didn't see this possibility... in 2010
quote:
I'm sure that in 20 years there will either be very large transaction volume or no volume.
0
Posted on 6/1/18 at 10:00 am to Diseasefreeforall
quote:
Quantum computing will eventually make current cryptography obsolete and destroy cryptocurrencies, it's inevitable.
How will an advance in computers allowing for quicker transaction processing make bitcoin obsolete.
And;
quote:
Quantum computing
quote:
5-10 years from now.
Posted on 6/1/18 at 10:04 am to Volvagia
quote:
How will an advance in computers allowing for quicker transaction processing make bitcoin obsolete.
It won't, but what it will do is drastically increase the chances of sha256 encryption being broken. Without that bitcoin is broken, and therefore useless.
Posted on 6/1/18 at 10:05 am to Diseasefreeforall
quote:
Quantum computing will eventually make current cryptography obsolete and destroy cryptocurrencies, it's inevitable.
This, IMhO, is the biggest risk to the long term viability of BitCoin and the like cryptocurrencies, much more so than the energy expenditure/operational costs of mining.
The time/work/resources necessary to mine are necessary and vital to the create value in the crypto currency. As technology progresses, the resource and time investment will decrease.
Consider technology 20-25 years ago compared to today. Back then, the majority of homes still didn’t have a PC, and most of those that did were using dial up internet connection. It took 5 minutes to download a single pic (which really sucked because someone inevitable picked up the phone, disconnecting you, right as the boobies were coming into view). Now I can whip out my smart phone and FaceTime somebody in China in 2 secs.
This post was edited on 6/1/18 at 10:08 am
Posted on 6/1/18 at 10:55 am to MoarKilometers
quote:
It won't, but what it will do is drastically increase the chances of sha256 encryption being broken.
There is a very thin possibility that they will figure out how to do math a certain way. But the way you say so certainly is flat out wrong. SHA-256 encryption is not quantum vulnerable. Quantum computers can certainly do the problem much much faster.
But the current estimated time for an attack for a quantum computer to break it, if you assign fifty super computers at it which can each do a billion billion attempts per second, is:
1500000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 years.
And yes, the number of zeros is deliberate.
Last I checked math, that number is a little bigger than the 5-10 year window you expect quantum computers to wreck bitcoin.
This post was edited on 6/1/18 at 10:57 am
Posted on 6/1/18 at 10:59 am to Sticky37
quote:
Bitcoin is Unsustainable
says increasingly nervous man for 70th time this decade
Posted on 6/1/18 at 1:34 pm to Volvagia
quote:
There is a very thin possibility that they will figure out how to do math a certain way. But the way you say so certainly is flat out wrong. SHA-256 encryption is not quantum vulnerable. Quantum computers can certainly do the problem much much faster.
But the current estimated time for an attack for a quantum computer to break it, if you assign fifty super computers at it which can each do a billion billion attempts per second, is:
1500000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 years.
And yes, the number of zeros is deliberate.
Last I checked math, that number is a little bigger than the 5-10 year window you expect quantum computers to wreck bitcoin.
I only said drastically increases the chances, which is correct. Quantum computers can use shor's algorithm and instantly drop the runtime from O(2^k/2) to O(k^3) . That is absolutely a drastic increase in probability. I don't know how many qubits these computers got, neither do you. You also couldn't pretend to tell me you'd know where they'll be in 5-10 more years. It's still very impractical, and likely still very improbable... but my statement is still 100% correct.
This post was edited on 6/1/18 at 1:39 pm
Posted on 6/1/18 at 3:16 pm to MoarKilometers
quote:
I only said drastically increases the chances, which is correct. Quantum computers can use shor's algorithm and instantly drop the runtime from O(2^k/2) to O(k^3) . That is absolutely a drastic increase in probability. I don't know how many qubits these computers got, neither do you. You also couldn't pretend to tell me you'd know where they'll be in 5-10 more years. It's still very impractical, and likely still very improbable... but my statement is still 100% correct.
No, it isn’t.
Because what you fail to understand is that not all cryptology can fit in a box that will fall to its knees in front of a quantum computers.
There are definitely presently “unbreakable” encryption that will fail in the face of quantum computing, and it is these that you are speaking technical details of. Who are particularly vulnerable are protocols that use binomials.
Case in point: you refer to Shor’s algorithm but you would use Grover’s algorithm to attack SHA-256
And you would still need 2^166 qbit cycles to crack it.
The problem lies in how the calculations are solved. While some are extremely exposed to what quantum computers bring to to the table, SHA-256 allows for a bottleneck to exist within the conventional processors that manage the qbits.
Now
Where quantum computers can pontentionally compromise bitcoin is that they can run nonce identification calculations very quickly (bit coin mining). By itself, that doesn’t change or harm anything. And the system’s own design accommodates this issue.
The problem only emerges if a single entity controls more than 51% of the total global processing ability for bitcoin mining.
As a result, they can exploit current logic handling of bitcoin and dismiss virtually all computer checking not controlled by them.
As a result, they can potentionally adulterate the ledger and make millions.
But this only happens if the bad guys have quantum computers and no one else does.
In a free market scenario it is very difficult for this to occur.
G’day.
This post was edited on 6/1/18 at 3:17 pm
Posted on 6/1/18 at 8:25 pm to Sticky37
$ECA #ElectraCoin is the future ????
Posted on 6/1/18 at 9:06 pm to sweetwaterbilly
quote:
A single bitcoin transaction is so energy intensive that it could power the average U.S. household for a month
How much is a bit coin now? Whats the average electric bill now?
Posted on 6/1/18 at 9:44 pm to bmy
quote:Bout $7500.
How much is a bit coin now?
The electrical cost crap had been disproven numerous times and is tired.
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