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re: Beyond Death: The Science of the Afterlife
Posted on 7/19/17 at 2:35 pm to TheIndulger
Posted on 7/19/17 at 2:35 pm to TheIndulger
quote:
God will send people to eternal punishment simply for not believing in him
I guess that applies to thousands of American Indians that existed in this country before the white man came here. They never heard of Jesus, Yahweh, Jehovah, so I guess they're in hell now?
2
Posted on 7/19/17 at 2:36 pm to Breesus
quote:
What book of John are you reading? That's 100% not what 3:15 says.
Sorry, first letter of John, not Gospel.
quote:
That in no way means that thinking about murder = murder.
Are you seriously arguing that openly wishing you could murder someone does not count as anger at said person? 1 John and Matthew both say that being angry at a brother makes you a murdered not worthy of eternal life.
quote:
No. It doesn't. Not in the context you mean. And even if you interpret it that way all I need to do is honesty ask for forgiveness.
Then why not just go ahead and do the murdering and then ask for your forgiveness.
It sounds to me like the only thing stopping you from acting like a wild animal is the existence of secular laws, and not your alleged morality.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 2:38 pm to saintsfan1977
quote:
Dont put words in my mouth. I never said Hitler didnt deserve some form of punishment. I said he doesnt deserve eternal punishment. Meaning once he is banished to that "hell" he is never getting out. Whatever we do in say 79 years of life (average life expectancy) doesnt deserve eternal hell. Not from a human standpoint or a gods either.
You sure think highly of yourself to suppose you can speak for God on matters of eteritiy and punishment for sin.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 2:41 pm to WiredBobcat
quote:millions if you count all of south america and central america
I guess that applies to thousands of American Indians that existed in this country before the white man came here. They never heard of Jesus, Yahweh, Jehovah, so I guess they're in hell now?
Posted on 7/19/17 at 2:42 pm to studentsect
quote:
Sorry, first letter of John, not Gospel.
Oh OK. You took one line out of context from an entire letter about love and forgiveness and tried to use it to prove your point. That's cute.
quote:
Are you seriously arguing that openly wishing you could murder someone does not count as anger at said person?
Yeah man, I'm not angry at all. In fact, I have a great amount of pity for someone who is so detrimental to society that they should be snuffed out.
quote:
Then why not just go ahead and do the murdering and then ask for your forgiveness.
God has murdered plenty of people because they were detrimental to others and too stupid to live. Ever read the old testament? The plagues of Egypt? The Passover? And he championed the Jews conquest to reclaim their lands through war. He doesn't seem to have much of a problem with it and in fact justified it often. But he made those choices. It is not my place to pass judgment and to choose. That is why I don't go around snuffing people out.
In fact one of the biggest things Jesus preached against when he came here was the danger of organized religion and the hypocrisy of its leaders. As well as the punishments and rewardsof the secular world.
This post was edited on 7/19/17 at 2:45 pm
Posted on 7/19/17 at 2:43 pm to WiredBobcat
quote:
I guess that applies to thousands of American Indians that existed in this country before the white man came here. They never heard of Jesus, Yahweh, Jehovah, so I guess they're in hell now?
Knowing and choosing not to believe =/= never knowing.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 2:48 pm to Breesus
It's inane and I don't appreciate your immoral propaganda
Posted on 7/19/17 at 2:49 pm to Breesus
quote:
all I need to do is honesty ask for forgiveness.
Then why is there even a hell in the first place? If all one has to do is ask forgiveness, nobody ever burns for eternity. All "gods" children go to heaven. So tell me, if god never spoke a single word, or showed himself to a single person, how is it an entire book was written about him?
The only conclusion I can come up with is that its the same reason we have books written about dragons, Alice in Wonderland, Frankenstein, etc. It was all man made.
If there is a god, its not one that sits around asking for peoples forgiveness and determining who goes up or down. It isnt monitoring the universe like us looking at a minnow in a fish bowl. Its already here. Its mother nature. It doesnt need prayer or worshiping or churches and sinners.
If there is an afterlife it doesnt include us being reunited with past family members in a world where lions and tigers act like pets. Or one where there is a "devil" burning people and watching them suffer for eternity. Thats fairy tales. Life doesnt care about that.
Life is light. Its like a candle almost burnt down to end of its wick and passing its flame to the next candle so that it lives on. That is what we do when we have children. We pass on ourselves so they we can keep living just like plants and animals do.
This post was edited on 7/19/17 at 2:51 pm
Posted on 7/19/17 at 2:50 pm to Breesus
quote:
Knowing and choosing not to believe =/= never knowing.
But according to the Bible....
quote:
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
Romans 3:23
That means the American Indians had sinned whether they knew it or not, in God's eyes they were sinners.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 2:52 pm to Sody Cracker
quote:
"Well, he's in a better place." If that were true, we would rejoice when a loved one dies. But, we don't because deep down we all know dead means dead.
That's not true. We mourn their passing because we are selfish.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 2:53 pm to Breesus
quote:
Knowing and choosing not to believe =/= never knowing.
Then your god is not omnipotent or omniscient.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 2:54 pm to Breesus
quote:
Oh OK. You took one line out of context from an entire letter about love and forgiveness and tried to use it to prove your point. That's cute.
The line is: Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
What is the point of that line? Why even have it? Does it not actually mean what it says?
You seem to agree with me that it is silly nonsense and has no impact whatsoever on the way that I should conduct my life. Welcome to team Atheist.
quote:
Because of secular punishments. God has murdered plenty of people because they were detrimental to others and too stupid to live. Ever read the old testament? The plagues of Egypt? The Passover? And he championed the Jews conquest to reclaim their lands through war. He doesn't seem to have much of a problem with it and in fact justified it often.
So secular punishments are the only thing stopping you from fricking murdering people(!!!) who annoy you? Well then I don't know what to tell you, I'm just surprised that you take this position in a discussion where your position is that all morality comes from God.
Edit: you edited your response to remove the part where you said secular laws were the only thing keeping you from murdering, but I was already writing my response by then. Well, I'm at least glad that you realized that that was fricking insane. If you don't think that the Bible contains useful information as to how a person should feel about frickING MURDER then I don't see how it serves any value whatsoever as a morality guide.
This post was edited on 7/19/17 at 2:58 pm
Posted on 7/19/17 at 2:54 pm to saintsfan1977
quote:
Then why is there even a hell in the first place?
That's a stupid question. God gave you free will. It's one of the best gifts given to you.
You don't have to believe in him and you don't have to ask for forgiveness. That's your choice.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 2:55 pm to WiredBobcat
the fact that matter can even exist in this universe is a completely arbitrary miracle. I have read where several quantum thinkers believe that in alternate universes, because the forces like gravity and magnetic fields could have different relations to one another then they do in this universe, it wouldn't even obey the same mathematical principles or
Energetic organization our universe does and everything would just be a matter less soup. As you get deeper and deeper into some of the advanced maths, you really begin to see that mathematics is a purely descriptive/predictive system that describes the arbitrary laws of nature that have been designed by some kind of outside force.
Energetic organization our universe does and everything would just be a matter less soup. As you get deeper and deeper into some of the advanced maths, you really begin to see that mathematics is a purely descriptive/predictive system that describes the arbitrary laws of nature that have been designed by some kind of outside force.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 2:55 pm to saintsfan1977
quote:
Then your god is not omnipotent or omniscient.
What does God's omniscience or omnipotence have to do with tribes in Africa that have never heard of him?
Posted on 7/19/17 at 2:56 pm to Breesus
quote:
God gave you free will. It's one of the best gifts given to you.
That's your choice.
Again, its impossible for your god to be all knowing and all powerful if the above is true.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 2:56 pm to WiredBobcat
quote:
That means the American Indians had sinned whether they knew it or not, in God's eyes they were sinners.
I never said they weren't sinners. I said they aren't all burning in hell.
Jesus came to save the sinners and open the kingdom of heaven to all.
This post was edited on 7/19/17 at 2:59 pm
Posted on 7/19/17 at 2:56 pm to Big_Slim
“The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you."
--mother fricking Heisenberg
--mother fricking Heisenberg
Posted on 7/19/17 at 2:57 pm to Paul Allen
quote:
It's inane and I don't appreciate your immoral propaganda
Did you read it all?
Posted on 7/19/17 at 2:57 pm to saintsfan1977
quote:
Again, its impossible for your god to be all knowing and all powerful if the above is true.
What?
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