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Started By
Message
re: Arizona officers storm house with guns drawn over toddler with a high fever
Posted on 3/29/19 at 3:52 pm to nola000
Posted on 3/29/19 at 3:52 pm to nola000
quote:
My whole point was just that I don't believe the government should be able to force medical treatment on people.
I agree with this.
None of your “reasoning” behind it, but this.
However I think the book should be thrown at people who cause negative outcomes by this.
If your kid dies from easily preventable circumstances where you made a deliberate choice to not provide the standard of care, you should suffer criminal judgements equal to you putting a pillow over the child’s face to suffocate it.
0
Posted on 3/29/19 at 3:52 pm to buckeye_vol
You're right. It was three zeros not five. I calculated incorrectly. The correct number is 0.00022%.
Posted on 3/29/19 at 3:52 pm to Howyouluhdat
quote:
With a temp more than 105 for a two year old, that's deadly.
Well that’s false.
Doctor’s generally do not care about a spiked high fever. They care about labored breathing more than anything OR a sustained fever over 100 degrees for several days
Posted on 3/29/19 at 3:52 pm to nola000
quote:
I don't understand why that's such a controversial opinion. Especially around here with all the people who claim to be small-government conservatives who hold fast to the ideals of liberty the country was founded on.
What about the child’s rights? Are you saying a parent’s rights extend to putting a child’s life in danger due to no treatment of a deadly disease (e.g. meningitis, in this case)?
Posted on 3/29/19 at 3:56 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
So then they wouldn’t recommend a cheap vaccine when the diseases would require patients to pay much more to treat.
It's not as if they don't compete with one another. The pharmaceutical companies, that is.
There's a lot of moving parts there. Company A may produce a vaccine but not any drugs to treat the disease. Obviously they're going to be pushing for the vaccine. Company B may produce the drugs or medical equipment to treat the disease but not produce the vaccine.
Also, the majority of the revenue generated to treat a disease goes through the hospitals, surgeons and doctors not the pharmaceutical companies.
Your argument was a little bit of a straw man. But I appreciate the effort.
This post was edited on 3/29/19 at 3:57 pm
Posted on 3/29/19 at 3:57 pm to nola000
quote:
Certainly shouldn't be done by the government and forced under penalty of law or at gunpoint.
Did I miss the let where the kids were hauled off because they didn’t have vaccinations?
And here I thought it was because the doctor was concerned one of the kids might have meningitis, and the mother refused to take them to the E.R.
Posted on 3/29/19 at 4:00 pm to nola000
quote:
My whole point was just that I don't believe the government should be able to force medical treatment on people. Unless they're an indigent ward of the state or some shite like that.
I agree for adults. For children, I don't think it's so black and white
Posted on 3/29/19 at 4:00 pm to lostinbr
So are you arguing that wars and revolutions aren't fought over the freedom determine one's own destiny? Certainly most revolutions are, anyway.
Sure people were paralyzed over polio. My step dad still has a crooked face from it. But it was still an incredibly small percentage of the population. It was also already on the decline before the Salk vaccine was developed.
You do realize that disease outbreaks cycle naturally in the absence of human intervention, right?
I'm not arguing that the vaccine didn't have an effect or that it didn't help contribute to the decline but the medical industry would gladly have you believe that vaccines completely wiped polio off the face of the map all by themselves. That just doesn't tell the whole story.
quote:
I guess all these iron lungs were just part of an elaborate plot to demonize polio, and nobody actually got paralyzed. Amirite?
Sure people were paralyzed over polio. My step dad still has a crooked face from it. But it was still an incredibly small percentage of the population. It was also already on the decline before the Salk vaccine was developed.
You do realize that disease outbreaks cycle naturally in the absence of human intervention, right?
I'm not arguing that the vaccine didn't have an effect or that it didn't help contribute to the decline but the medical industry would gladly have you believe that vaccines completely wiped polio off the face of the map all by themselves. That just doesn't tell the whole story.
Posted on 3/29/19 at 4:05 pm to nola000
Let’s say the child does have meningitis and dies because the parents refused to have the test done. The doctor made the call to authorities and they did nothing, because it’s the parent’s “right” to do whatever they want with the kid. You would be ok with this and not angry that something wasn’t done to protect the innocent child that can’t decide if they want medical treatment?
Posted on 3/29/19 at 4:11 pm to lostinbr
quote:
Did I miss the let where the kids were hauled off because they didn’t have vaccinations?
And here I thought it was because the doctor was concerned one of the kids might have meningitis, and the mother refused to take them to the E.R.
I addressed both of those in another post. I wasn't arguing about either of those points.
Posted on 3/29/19 at 4:25 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
Doctor’s generally do not care about a spiked high feve
They sure as hell care about a fever in an unvaccinated child.
Doctor did the right thing by reporting parents to DCS. Now did Chandler police need to use a swat team to storm the house....no.
Posted on 3/29/19 at 4:31 pm to Saltwatersoul04
quote:
Let’s say the child does have meningitis and dies because the parents refused to have the test done. The doctor made the call to authorities and they did nothing, because it’s the parent’s “right” to do whatever they want with the kid. You would be ok with this and not angry that something wasn’t done to protect the innocent child that can’t decide if they want medical treatment?
You will think me a cold, heartless individual but no. I would not be angry. I would be sad. It's unfortunate that people are born to irresponsible parents and they have to suffer the consequences of that through no fault of their own but that's the cost of living in a free Society.
It's far preferable to the other alternative.
Posted on 3/29/19 at 4:33 pm to nola000
I’m happy for you to spout your libertarian ideals all you want, just keep your polio infested kids away from everyone else.
You do know vaccinations have nearly eradicated diseases which tormented our ancestors, right?
Right?
Right?
Right?
This is an annoying way of posting, right?
You do know vaccinations have nearly eradicated diseases which tormented our ancestors, right?
Right?
Right?
Right?
This is an annoying way of posting, right?
Posted on 3/29/19 at 4:44 pm to biglego
quote:
just keep your polio infested kids away from everyone else
quote:
You do know vaccinations have nearly eradicated diseases which tormented our ancestors, right?
ETA:
herd im·mu·ni·ty
noun
the resistance to the spread of a contagious disease within a population that results if a sufficiently high proportion of individuals are immune to the disease, especially through vaccination.
This post was edited on 3/29/19 at 4:52 pm
Posted on 3/29/19 at 4:54 pm to nola000
quote:
You do know vaccinations have Nearly eradicated diseases which tormented our ancestors, right?
Not hard reasoning here. Nearly not completely. Only takes one to rapidly spread to others that aren’t protected.
Posted on 3/29/19 at 4:59 pm to Puck82
quote:
Not hard reasoning here. Nearly not completely. Only takes one to rapidly spread to others that aren’t protected.
Well since only us "crazy anti-vaxxers" are the ones that "aren't protected" why are you worried about it?
Not hard reasoning here.
Posted on 3/29/19 at 5:01 pm to Saltwatersoul04
The "Nanny State" mentality is to blame for all of this.
It's not the government's job to manage our lives for us.
If the government really did care as much as they pretend to, they wouldn't endorse the mass killing of babies.
It's not the government's job to manage our lives for us.
If the government really did care as much as they pretend to, they wouldn't endorse the mass killing of babies.
Posted on 3/29/19 at 5:05 pm to Mahootney
I bet you didn’t read the entire article
Posted on 3/29/19 at 5:07 pm to nes2010
quote:
She told the naturopathic doctor that she feared that the hospital would report her to the Arizona Department of Child Safety for failing to vaccinate her child, and that her husband, who was in favor of vaccination, would be upset by the situation.
I’m sorry, but as the father, I’d be taking my children to the doctor to get them vaccinated. frick that bitch.
Posted on 3/29/19 at 5:20 pm to arcalades
quote:
For a 105 fever? Pediatrician tells me that I’m finding a new one.
you're so clueless. You don't have any kids do you? You won't find "that" pediatrician beore the kid is grown.
When to Call the Doctor For A Fever
Under 3 months: Any fever of 100.4°F or higher, even if he shows no other symptoms of illness. If the fever develops after office hours or on a weekend, go to the emergency room. ...
3 to 6 months: A fever of 101°F or higher.
Over 6 months: A fever 103°F or higher.
When to Call the Doctor For A Fever | Parenting
LINK
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