re: Amazon to roll out electric vans to fight climate change

quote:

---

All I know is that regardless of what the truth really is, and regardless of how "clean" the mining and/or recycling process gets, there will be jackasses complaining about the environmental impact saying it's better to just keep burning shite.

---

Not my agenda. But don’t tell me it’s economical if your back end waste stream strategy is a hope and a prayer.

It’s ok to say that oil is cheaper but electricity is better. Just don’t ignore the externalized costs.

Hell, if the end stream costs are far enough out, you can PV them to much smaller numbers.

(As a twist, ignoring externalized costs is exactly what alternative energy advocates accuse oil of doing. If your calling someone a pot, you can’t act like a kettle).

quote:

---

Amazon to roll out electric vans to fight climate change

---

pew
pew

quote:

---

Whatever the waste products are,

---

See, that’s the problem for me. What if the waste products on the back end of electric are awful, and the costs turn out to be huge and difficult, like nuclear? We need to think that through on the front end.


This problem is highlighted for me when the justification that lithium is “endlessly recyclable.” I’ve been around enough to know that recycling lithium from batteries is going to produce lots of methyl ethyl nasties.

quote:

---

See, that’s the problem for me. What if the waste products on the back end of electric are awful, and the costs turn out to be huge and difficult, like nuclear? We need to think that through on the front end.


This problem is highlighted for me when the justification that lithium is “endlessly recyclable.” I’ve been around enough to know that recycling lithium from batteries is going to produce lots of methyl ethyl nasties.

---

Your basic premise is a very legitimate question. But, dear god is it complex. Turning all the cornucopia of effects into data and crunching the numbers could tie up massive amounts of quantum computing power.

Before I go forward I will say that the majority of people IRL I discuss this issue with that use the environmental argument against EVs are also arguing against the environment on near every other economy vs environment argument. Not saying they want to go back to industrial revolution levels of pollution but they far less environmentally sensitive when it comes to other matters.

As for the batteries in a vacuum, there certainly are issues with lithium mining and recycling, we basically cracked the mining nut and it may very well be we crack the recycling nut when the economics favor significant capital outlays and R&D. That said there is also the issue of changing battery technology. Hi-cap LIBs, Li metal-based batteries and possibly the most intriguing solid-state batteries. All expected to increase power density, safety, and lifespan while lowering cost. Each of these has a significant positive impact on the environmental cost of production and recycling.

I personally firmly believe EVs are a net positive for the environment, modest now probably but that efficiency gap will only grow in a sector in its infancy compared to a very mature technology like ICE.

I am a life long performance car driver, both on and off the track and the performance potential of EVs is nothing less than mind-blowing. The most radical EV race-tuned drivetrain could be completely docile on the streets while we have come a LONG way with ICE vehicles in this regard EVs beat them basically out of the gate as a technology. EVs just have an immense upside in performance but they do cause one to accept that a glorious exhaust note is just the sound of inefficiency.

I would love the US to reap the benefits of being an EV powerhouse on the world stage both economically and performance-wise. I, however, am more and more afraid we are going to flush that opportunity based on both sides arguing the secondary argument. We actually could have our cake and eat it too but many of both sides would rather get a 1 oz cake all to themselves instead of splitting a 1 pound cake down the middle since when they weigh them the other side might get a hundredth of an ounce more. All the small minds that think everything Obama or Trump has done is bad (or good) are an albatross on the neck of the open-minded.

quote:

---

It’s impossible to know for sure. But Bezos, the world’s wealthiest person and the owner of The Washington Post, travels frequently aboard his own jet, a Gulfstream G650ER.
Flight data examined by The Post show that the luxury jet has embarked on more than a dozen flights a month in 2018, many of them leaving or returning to Seattle, Amazon’s current home.

---

Wash Post

Do as he says.....

quote:

---

Political
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

scientific

---

The science doesn't make it a crisis. The politics of how to deal with it created a crisis.

Science doesn't claim people will become extinct because of CC

I don’t know why everyone sweats over EVs.

The biggest issue I see from proponents on the left is the clear neglect for everything else hydrocarbons produce. Vehicles are a very small percent of what hydrocarbons are used for.

Recently it’s been publicly stated by candidates that they don’t even want nuclear energy. Wind nor solar nor electricity can produce the downstream products of plastics and polymers that people use all over the world. Parts of your iPhone were built by hydrocarbons.

It’s a very easy argument to say hey let’s all ride EVs by 2040. But the idiots saying to completely remove drilling and o/g production have produced zero plan to make up for all the other products that come from hydrocarbons. Nobody has challenged them on it either.

They have zero clue as to what hydrocarbons provide people, ZERO.

I put partial blame on the oil/gas industry for not getting out front and educating the public. They’ve done a horrible job in talking about what exactly hydrocarbons provide people.

We all know what hydrocarbons provide people. Mostly energy but also plastic, lubricants, rubber and explosives.

quote:

---

They have zero clue as to what hydrocarbons provide people, ZERO.

---

Most are into it because its hip. They have no clue once you get beyond the superficial.