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Message
re: About to put my son in drug rehab. update page 20
Posted on 9/26/14 at 9:03 am to redfieldk717
Posted on 9/26/14 at 9:03 am to redfieldk717
quote:
most doctors just keep handing out scripts for it instead of sticking to a program of getting them trickling them off
That's not the medicines fault. Improper use leads to poor outcomes with ANY medicine or treatment. I'm sure you see more issues in LA because apparently it is not as restricted as here in Arkansas. Only a handful of providers and clinics can rx it here and they are limited to 100 pt's at a time.
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Posted on 9/26/14 at 9:03 am to SmackoverHawg
i know...i'm not arguing there. in a perfect world, the docs writing the scripts would all be well informed and trained but that's not possible. i was just making a general statement
Posted on 9/26/14 at 9:04 am to Artie Rome
quote:
I see literally hundreds of people every month that are sober because of their adherence to a 12 step program.
and crime would stop if we hired an armed agent of the government to watch over people with guns
just because some people have success doesn't mean that (1) it's optimal or that (2) the program is the reason for that success
i mean, for instance, the requirement of 100% abstinence. there isn't really data saying this is necessary. it's AA mythology. the bad part about the mythology is that it creates a self-fulfilling prophecy for people who could otherwise become normal, by skewing their tolerance levels. you take a vow of abstinence and then 5 months later you lose tolerance, so that if you drink again your perspective is skewed and you're more likely to overdo it. then the AA mythology says "see you're doing what we said"...after it set you up for failure
that's the stuff i worry about, especially as a criminal defense attorney who wants his clients to be clean. AA sets people up for failure
Posted on 9/26/14 at 9:04 am to redfieldk717
Posted on 9/26/14 at 9:06 am to redfieldk717
quote:
uhhhh basically most psychological disorders
medicine is quite popular treating psychological disorders, and lots of medical research is devoted to just this
SSRIs, benzos, etc are crucial in treating psychological issues.
Posted on 9/26/14 at 9:06 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
AA sets people up for failure
Posted on 9/26/14 at 9:07 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
medicine is quite popular treating psychological disorders, and lots of medical research is devoted to just this
SSRIs, benzos, etc are crucial in treating psychological issues.
psycho therapy, coupled with medicine...
i take an ssri and go to AA, most people do both like me.
psych disorders are treated with therapy AND meds
This post was edited on 9/26/14 at 9:09 am
Posted on 9/26/14 at 9:07 am to MBclass83
Detox at the Tau center
Palmetto if you can afford it
Palmetto if you can afford it
Posted on 9/26/14 at 9:10 am to SmackoverHawg
I agree with you.
If I had had more information I wouldn't have gone to that Doctor.
My PCP asked me,"Why are you taking Suboxone?."
MB83's going to wonder what happened to his Thread when he checks back.
If I had had more information I wouldn't have gone to that Doctor.
My PCP asked me,"Why are you taking Suboxone?."
MB83's going to wonder what happened to his Thread when he checks back.
This post was edited on 9/26/14 at 9:12 am
Posted on 9/26/14 at 9:10 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
just because some people have success doesn't mean that (1) it's optimal or that (2) the program is the reason for that success
it is the most successful remedy for alcoholism in the world
the program is the reason for the success...they don't just get lucky and stop
Posted on 9/26/14 at 9:11 am to tidalmouse
quote:
MB83's going to wonder what happened to his Thread when he checks back.
Probably not!!! Prob not even opiates. But when has the OT ever had to stay on topic?
Posted on 9/26/14 at 9:11 am to redfieldk717
"I have a buddy who works at St. Christopher's. Just looked it up. I didn't even know they had that place. I was only aware of the one on Cora...which is, well, not so nice. Is Dr. Cataldie running that one as well? He's a good man."
St. Christopher's is not what it once was since Arlene became the director, however it is still the best private treatment program in this area. Dr. Cataldie is the medical director at Woodlake in Ethel now and I would not recommend this place regardless. I cannot comment on Palmetto. I have heard good things and bad things about it, which is common with treatment programs. They can never please everyone. All programs are going to have great and terrible reviews. A program is only as strong as the client's desire to get sober.
St. Christopher's is not what it once was since Arlene became the director, however it is still the best private treatment program in this area. Dr. Cataldie is the medical director at Woodlake in Ethel now and I would not recommend this place regardless. I cannot comment on Palmetto. I have heard good things and bad things about it, which is common with treatment programs. They can never please everyone. All programs are going to have great and terrible reviews. A program is only as strong as the client's desire to get sober.
Posted on 9/26/14 at 9:12 am to MBclass83
quote:
Palmetto, bring him up here. They will clean him up.
This. I know a few people that went to Palmetto. I know a few that went to treatment centers in Summit MS that Bass's run. The Bass's
are good people and get the job done. My best advice is to keep him in the treatment center for 90 days. The treatment centers will give you the stats 90 day program vs 28 day program.
There is a huge difference in the success rate for extended programs and well worth it. I personally did an extended program with Marty Bass's treatment center in Summit MS. I highly recommend using them.
Posted on 9/26/14 at 9:12 am to redfieldk717
when a program requires the person to be treated to claim he/she is powerless over its behavior and to require absolute abstinence, you are creating a path to failure. and then, the mythology creates a self-fulfilling prophecy for the groupthink
i am not saying AA or similar methods are absolutely worthless, but they're not really effective as a full treatment program (based on statistical data) and our system basically only relying on 12-steps is terrible for treatment as an industry. how many other industries do you know that rely on 75 year old methodology that rejects any competition?
but there is some good that can come from AA. admitting that your pattern of behavior was a pathology? good. understanding that others have same behavioral patterns? good. having a group of people that you can interact with (especially initially) who aren't in the group that is influencing you to exhibit your pathologies? good. that's all good, in my opinion, especially for the detox period.
i am not saying AA or similar methods are absolutely worthless, but they're not really effective as a full treatment program (based on statistical data) and our system basically only relying on 12-steps is terrible for treatment as an industry. how many other industries do you know that rely on 75 year old methodology that rejects any competition?
but there is some good that can come from AA. admitting that your pattern of behavior was a pathology? good. understanding that others have same behavioral patterns? good. having a group of people that you can interact with (especially initially) who aren't in the group that is influencing you to exhibit your pathologies? good. that's all good, in my opinion, especially for the detox period.
Posted on 9/26/14 at 9:14 am to SmackoverHawg
Posted on 9/26/14 at 9:15 am to SlowFlowPro
i agree...treatment centers make sobriety much easier moving forward.
i will always recommend to people to go to treatment first then attend AA coupled with psycho therapy post treatment
to the OP - 30 day treatment centers are not nearly as successful as 90 day programs. it takes 30 days just to pull your head out of your arse and "wake up"
i will always recommend to people to go to treatment first then attend AA coupled with psycho therapy post treatment
to the OP - 30 day treatment centers are not nearly as successful as 90 day programs. it takes 30 days just to pull your head out of your arse and "wake up"
This post was edited on 9/26/14 at 9:16 am
Posted on 9/26/14 at 9:19 am to redfieldk717
quote:
it is the most successful remedy for alcoholism in the world
the data does not reflect this. i posted 2 articles with mass studies that reject this claim
go look up the rates of spontaneous remission for alcoholics.
another article, this one fro Wapo
quote:
Many proponents of AA cite Project MATCH (Matching Alcoholism Treatments to Client Heterogeneity), a study completed in 1996 by the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism that seemed to find that 12-step treatment works. The study randomly assigned alcoholics to one of three behaviorally based treatments with marked differences in philosophy and practice: a 12-step therapy based on the principles of Alcoholics Anonymous, cognitive behavioral therapy and motivational enhancement therapy.
After eight years and $27 million, the study concluded that the techniques were equally effective. More to the point, a 2005 article in the journal BMC Public Health that reanalyzed the data from Project MATCH reported that almost all of the effect of treatment was achieved after attending a single session. In other words, it was the initial decision to try to get better that determined a person's chances of succeeding; what followed made little difference.
and as for that spontaneous remission?
quote:
In a 2005 article in the journal Addiction, Deborah A. Dawson and her colleagues calculated a natural recovery rate for alcoholism of 24.4 percent -- that is, over the course of a year, 24.4 percent of the alcoholics studied simply wised up, got sick and tired of being sick and tired, and quit. Without treatment and without meetings.
quote:
In a 1990 summary of five membership surveys from 1977 through 1989, AA reported that 81 percent of alcoholics who began attending meetings stopped within one month. At any one time, only 5 percent of those still attending had been doing so for a year.
Posted on 9/26/14 at 9:19 am to SlowFlowPro
I can agree to a certain extent. Being sober from substances for a long time, I needed a life adjustment. Palmetto gave me that. Yet, I dont practice the 12 step program anymore. After a period of time, it got too monotonousness for me. Same stories over and over. I left my hometown and found successful friends who didnt need substances to have a good time. I think each person has to find what works best for them. I dont have any data or stats to back up anything, but I do know Palmetto helped me become what I am today. Substance free and successful(in my world)
Posted on 9/26/14 at 9:20 am to redfieldk717
quote:
to the OP - 30 day treatment centers are not nearly as successful as 90 day programs. it takes 30 days just to pull your head out of your arse and "wake up"
This. I was in treatment for 8 months and the first 4-5, I was still in denial about my problems and whether or not I needed to be there. Stuck it out and just made 6 years sober and life is 1000x better nowadays.
Posted on 9/26/14 at 9:22 am to Supermoto Tiger
I keep seeing the 90 day vs. 30 day programs keep coming up so just wanted to weigh in from what I have seen and what makes 90 day programs (Palmetto specifically) so successful.
30 day programs - they coddle you and tell you you're better than this, put you in group settings and just when the drug or alcohol effect wears off your body and your brain starts to heal (usually 30 days) they release you back into the real world with a 'pat on your back' telling you, you can do this.
90 day programs such as Palmetto - the first 30 days has to do with getting you and your body right for treatment and detoxing you. The next 60 are all about YOU being the problem. They focus on the psycholicgcal aspect absolutely smashing the idea that you could drink or take drugs like a normal person. When places like that are through with you, you have ZERO desire to ever pick up a drink or a drug again. Those that do were never 100% honest in treatment to begin with.
30 day programs - they coddle you and tell you you're better than this, put you in group settings and just when the drug or alcohol effect wears off your body and your brain starts to heal (usually 30 days) they release you back into the real world with a 'pat on your back' telling you, you can do this.
90 day programs such as Palmetto - the first 30 days has to do with getting you and your body right for treatment and detoxing you. The next 60 are all about YOU being the problem. They focus on the psycholicgcal aspect absolutely smashing the idea that you could drink or take drugs like a normal person. When places like that are through with you, you have ZERO desire to ever pick up a drink or a drug again. Those that do were never 100% honest in treatment to begin with.
This post was edited on 9/26/14 at 9:26 am
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