- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: A hundred school shootings a year wouldn't change my mind
Posted on 5/25/22 at 1:15 pm to 1BamaRTR
Posted on 5/25/22 at 1:15 pm to 1BamaRTR
quote:
How about you pay attention to history? What happened in Vietnam?
But there were things present in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Vietnam that we don't have here. Namely a young population, groups with set out doctrines, lots of foreign aid, and frankly, populations with much lower needs in terms of chronic illness. Like all things this century, any civil conflict in this country would border on the comical.
2
Posted on 5/25/22 at 1:17 pm to Clames
quote:
Sorry bud the answer to reducing gun violence will never be more gun-control laws no matter how much you want it to be.
except there is literal verifiable evidence of it working in the rest of the developed world, but keep those fingers in yours ears.
Posted on 5/25/22 at 1:20 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
But there were things present in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Vietnam that we don't have here. Namely a young population, groups with set out doctrines, lots of foreign aid, and frankly, populations with much lower needs in terms of chronic illness. Like all things this century, any civil conflict in this country would border on the comical.
I don’t think we are anywhere close to having an actual civil war break out. The whole argument here is whether an armed populace could make a difference against a supposedly tyrannical government in the future. In the future if things deteriorate to such dire circumstances and the government actually goes authoritarian, maybe an armed populace could make a difference.
But yes it’s a very extreme hypothetical that we are far off from. The main argument for guns now is self defense
Posted on 5/25/22 at 1:22 pm to mindbreaker
quote:
except there is literal verifiable evidence of it working in the rest of the developed world, but keep those fingers in yours ears.
From my other post:
quote:
And in this country mass shootings were exceedingly rare, with mass school shootings even rarer, on par with strict gun control countries without the need for the strict gun control laws, with much, much easier access to firearms since this nation was founded.
Then something changed. And it has absolutely nothing to do with the availability of guns, because they've always been available. In fact since 1934, they've been harder and harder to obtain.
It's why the "strict gun control laws work in other countries" argument is complete bullshite.
Posted on 5/25/22 at 1:23 pm to mindbreaker
quote:
except there is literal verifiable evidence of it working in the rest of the developed world, but keep those fingers in yours ears.
Except there's not. The UK is a great example. Dunblane massacre used as an excuse to massively curtail gun ownership and those laws are frequently cited as why another incident has not happened since. Except for the fact in the 100 years before Dunblane, there was never such an incident either. So gun-control laws really didn't do anything but a few police officers were killed when somebody through a frag grenade at them. Oh, and they just knife the shite out of each other and have a higher rate of violent crimes per capita than the US.
Examples of the simple-minded dishonesty of gun-control advocacy. Russia is a developed country with strict gun-control and very high levels of gun-violence too.
Posted on 5/25/22 at 1:23 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
I'm not trying to be rude, but using the ATF as a core piece of the solution represents a disconnect from the gun owning public and doesn't help your case at all. If that includes completely overhauling the ATF to make it into an entity devoted to enforcing existing law rather than an advocacy group working against gun owners - say so and incorporate that into your proposal.
None of what I have suggested in the policy stated to you involves support for turning the ATF into a gestapo agency to go after legal gun owners. If your aversion to new policy or an improvement of current processes is simply you are going to project the villainous fantasies of NRA-brained conspiracists onto any proposal or change in the status quo someone suggests, I just refer back to my initial question of, what is the point?
You can abolish the ATF and create a new agency for all I care, the core of the matter is to modernize our oversight agencies and make them an actually effective support agency for state, local, and federal law agencies to carry out a proposed increase focus on reducing the illegal supply chain of guns to attack the problem of gun violence from the criminal side using carrots(gun buyback) and sticks(increased and improved law enforcement of the current laws on the books)
But as a side note, this conversation does highlight one of the hypocrisies that almost always arise once these conversation go past skin deep. The people that say "just enforce the laws on the books better" turn out to not really mean that when you agree with them and start pointing out what that means.
This post was edited on 5/25/22 at 1:25 pm
Posted on 5/25/22 at 1:25 pm to mindbreaker
quote:Even if that were true, why should I (as a law abiding citizen) give up any of my rights at all?
except there is literal verifiable evidence of it working in the rest of the developed world, but keep those fingers in yours ears.
I will freely surrender all of my firearms to the government as soon as that can be sensibly explained.
Why should we, the people, bear the brunt of this bullshite?
Posted on 5/25/22 at 1:25 pm to 1BamaRTR
I mean, actual tyrannical things the USG has done to its own populace barely met with any armed resistance. I'm skeptical that we will see organized armed resistance along anything like an insurgency in this country. The US security state is remarkably good at poisoning any potential resistance movements.
Posted on 5/25/22 at 1:27 pm to 1BamaRTR
How many times do you defend yourself with your gun in a day to day basis that you consider using your gun for defense part of the status quo?
Posted on 5/25/22 at 1:28 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
populations with much lower needs in terms of chronic illness. Like all things this century, any civil conflict in this country would border on the comical.
Number 1 cause of death Jan 6? Heart attack.
Posted on 5/25/22 at 1:28 pm to SammyTiger
quote:How many times do you have to turn away the military from bivouacking on your property?
How many times do you defend yourself with your gun in a day to day basis that you consider using your gun for defense part of the status quo?
Want to get rid of 3A, too?
Dunce.
Posted on 5/25/22 at 1:28 pm to Sun God
quote:
Taking away guns would lead to a full on revolution
Honestly Guns for Guns sake being more revolution worthy that a stolen elections is beyond depressing.
It’s not even the first amendment. And the first amendment covers a bunch of things that could have their own amendment.
Posted on 5/25/22 at 1:29 pm to Abraham H Parnassis
quote:
How many times do you have to turn away the military from bivouacking on your property? Want to get rid of 3A, too?
My third amendment right never got any school kids shot.
This post was edited on 5/25/22 at 1:31 pm
Posted on 5/25/22 at 1:31 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
How many times do you defend yourself with your gun in a day to day basis that you consider using your gun for defense part of the status quo?
In this extreme hypothetical we are assuming a large enough portion of people feel the government has become full blown tyrannical. So it’s not just gun defense being made illegal
Posted on 5/25/22 at 1:31 pm to SammyTiger
quote:My firearms never got any school kids shot, either.
My third amendment right never got any school kids shot.
Answer the question though.
I'm going to assume the military never moved into your home and property without your consent. Should we just get rid of 3A?
Posted on 5/25/22 at 1:31 pm to Lakeboy7
quote:
Number 1 cause of death Jan 6? Heart attack.
Because all the keyboard warriors stayed the frick home and kept their guns locked in their safes.
Posted on 5/25/22 at 1:31 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
My third amendment right never got any school kids shot.
Then use the Amendment process to repeal or change the 2nd. Yet none of you ever want to go down that road. Instead you want to circumvent the Constitution "for the children".
Posted on 5/25/22 at 1:33 pm to Bronc
quote:
None of what I have suggested in the policy stated to you involves support for turning the ATF into a gestapo agency to go after legal gun owners.
Except that is exactly what will happen. The ATF has a new advisory panel made exclusively of pro-gun-control advocates and leaders. Recently published a paper about the need to revise the Curio & Relic rules. Nothing in that paper has anything to do with actually prosecuting gun traffickers, everything to do with making it difficult and more expensive for lawful gun owners.
quote:
The people that say "just enforce the laws on the books better" turn out to not really mean that when you agree with them and start pointing out what that means.
Except you are precisely one of those people. You have a very shallow understanding of the ATF and existing Federal and State gun laws. You have no idea from a historical perspective either. You don't know the names, you don't read the available published documents, you have no idea what rules have been and are pending proposal. None of it. When people say "just enforce the laws on the books" it's because only a fraction of those that commit crimes in the procurement and trafficking of firearms are fully prosecuted. Low single-digit percentage. It's not for lack of manpower, the DoJ seems to have no problem going after hundreds of "insurrectionists" while letting other criminals skate.
Posted on 5/25/22 at 1:34 pm to Centinel
I absolutely Want to go down that road.
Posted on 5/25/22 at 1:35 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
I mean, actual tyrannical things the USG has done to its own populace barely met with any armed resistance. I'm skeptical that we will see organized armed resistance along anything like an insurgency in this country. The US security state is remarkably good at poisoning any potential resistance movements.
The hypothetical I’m speaking about is also society and the economy basically collapsing. That’s why I said it’s an extreme and unlikely hypothetical. You would need the worst of the worse to happen to motivate people (who would be very desperate) to do something as big as this.
Page 19 of 28
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News