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re: Saints apparently leaning against Butler trade
Posted on 4/24/17 at 9:32 am to St Augustine
Posted on 4/24/17 at 9:32 am to St Augustine
quote:
Are we really considering Ian so credible it constitutes people whiffing now?
absolutely. this deal is obviously hinged on negotiations between saints and pats on compensation. Not butler wanting more money. Butler is still not happy being a patriot.
0
Posted on 4/24/17 at 9:33 am to Chad504boy
That kind of doesn't make sense for them to have agreed upon a contract and now the deal is less likely?
Not saying the report is wrong, just weird
Not saying the report is wrong, just weird
Posted on 4/24/17 at 9:36 am to WicKed WayZ
quote:
make sense for them to have agreed upon a contract and now the deal is less likely?
Saints and Pats didn't hammer out exact compensation as previously assumed. Maybe they both had some decent ideas of what was needed but now its all leveraging out for the best deal. Saints would not be entertaining a trade offer at all without a long term deal orally in place.
Posted on 4/24/17 at 9:37 am to sicboy
Thank God
CB is deep this year no need to throw away a 1st rounder
CB is deep this year no need to throw away a 1st rounder
Posted on 4/24/17 at 9:44 am to sicboy
quote:
Per King, the Saints believe the depth of the draft could land them several Day 1 contributors between picks 25 and 75.
I get it, but the numbers are not in our favor.
In the last 5 years, 126 CBs were selected in the draft. 8 of those CBs have made the Pro Bowl.
5 of them were first rounders. Total, 24 CBs have been selected in the first round in that span.
2 of the Pro Bowlers were 2nd rounders, with 17 being selected in that span.
0 pro bowlers were selected in the 3rd or 4th, with 46 players being selected there in that span.
1 was selected in the 5th round (Josh Norman, for those curious), with 29 players selected there.
I understand it is a deep CB draft, but regardless, the odds are not in our favor. I would be much more comfortable dishing out a pick and a reasonable contract for something much close to a sure-thing, especially now when we need immediate help. How often have rookies made immediate contributions for us in the past few years?
Posted on 4/24/17 at 9:51 am to Rand AlThor
With that in mind, how have we done in "win now mode" since Payton returned from suspension. We're not one piece away. I'd just prefer we try to keep building the team with good players that will he he during and after the Brees years.
Posted on 4/24/17 at 9:56 am to St Augustine
Good. We can call them after we make our pick at 42 and ask if a 3rd this year and 4th next year will get the trade done. If not save the money and sign him next year with no compensation going towards New England.
Posted on 4/24/17 at 9:56 am to sicboy
quote:
Bill Belichick would need the right offer to come his way if he's to give up a Pro Bowl-caliber corner playing for dirt cheap.
If we trade the 32, it will essentially be Cooks for Butler. How is that not a good deal?
Posted on 4/24/17 at 9:59 am to sicboy
I hope the trade doesn't go down, never did want it. This is a golden opportunity for the Saints. I just hope they do their homework and don't fall in love with some bum (Antonio Pittman et al.) and don't trade away picks to move up. This is probably Payton's most important draft since his first one. Why? The deepest defensive draft in positions that the Saints need and with 5 picks in the first 3 rounds.
Posted on 4/24/17 at 10:01 am to jeff5891
quote:
Bill Belichick would need the right offer to come his way if he's to give up a Pro Bowl-caliber corner playing for dirt cheap.
On the patriots end, BB and Brady are further along in their careers than our own situation. I'm sure BB isn't too upset about going into a title defense with both his cb positions completely settled with proven talent and the number 1 fa cb. Who knows how much longer he has and he may be lookin for the easiest way to sustain "winning now" if he not planning to be there more than a few more seasons.
Posted on 4/24/17 at 10:03 am to St Augustine
quote:
With that in mind, how have we done in "win now mode" since Payton returned from suspension. We're not one piece away. I'd just prefer we try to keep building the team with good players that will he he during and after the Brees years.
Fair enough, but, with that in mind, how have we done in building the team with good players through the draft in the last half decade? Or, really, at all during the Loomis/Payton era, other than the amazing 06 draft. In that span we have done much better acquiring players through FA (though still with misses as well).
I also think, for both of these things, that you can say that even though we have failed in the past doesn't just mean that we should give up on using that avenue to get better in the future. Using that mentality I would prefer the one that at least gives us a reasonable shot of trying to compete with Brees now, considering our chances of hitting on a CB who can be good right now are almost legitimately 0%.
Posted on 4/24/17 at 10:11 am to bonethug0108
No Patriots wanted 32nd pick. And an additional pick. One of the Patriots beat writers said they were exploring what other compensation they can get in addition to the 32nd pick.
Like i said Saints fans were being unrealistic in thinking the Patriots would settle for ONLY low draft picks.
Like i said Saints fans were being unrealistic in thinking the Patriots would settle for ONLY low draft picks.
Posted on 4/24/17 at 10:32 am to St Augustine
I have never liked the #32 pick.
I think maybe #42 and a future 3rd might be right in line.
Too much value in the #32 pick especially the 5th year option. The one thing I found interesting is that the article said that the Saints have close grades on a lot of players between 25-75. That sounds fantastic but also sounds disturbing.
I will say this I don't think that the Saints should take a player at #42 for a need say OT if they have him rated #60 on basically everyone's board because the FO cannot separate out the talent.
At some point I think the FO has to say this group is 25-35, 36-45 and so on and not reach 10-15 spots for a guy.
I think maybe #42 and a future 3rd might be right in line.
Too much value in the #32 pick especially the 5th year option. The one thing I found interesting is that the article said that the Saints have close grades on a lot of players between 25-75. That sounds fantastic but also sounds disturbing.
I will say this I don't think that the Saints should take a player at #42 for a need say OT if they have him rated #60 on basically everyone's board because the FO cannot separate out the talent.
At some point I think the FO has to say this group is 25-35, 36-45 and so on and not reach 10-15 spots for a guy.
Posted on 4/24/17 at 10:39 am to sicboy
I think what is really going on is we are just playing the game and calling NE bluff on more picks.
if NE comes back and says "ok just give us 32 back and you get butler" then the deal happens.
if not then NE would be smart to take our two 3rd rounders now instead of getting just one compensatory 3rd round pick next year when butler moves to a new team.
if im not mistaken, aren't compensatory picks added on to the end of the rounds as the last picks of those rounds?
if NE comes back and says "ok just give us 32 back and you get butler" then the deal happens.
if not then NE would be smart to take our two 3rd rounders now instead of getting just one compensatory 3rd round pick next year when butler moves to a new team.
if im not mistaken, aren't compensatory picks added on to the end of the rounds as the last picks of those rounds?
Posted on 4/24/17 at 10:59 am to keakar
quote:
aren't compensatory picks added on to the end of the rounds as the last picks of those rounds?
Correct. It is tacked onto the end of the round, so very late. I don't like to say stuff like "essentially a 4th rounder" but it basically is.
Also, comp picks aren't awarded until the following offseason. So if Butler walked next offseason, they wouldn't get the pick until the 2019 draft. Additionally, comp picks are not just awarded for departures. There is a formula based on how many FAs you sign as well. Typically the Pats do not sign huge FAs, but they just did sign Gilmore to that big contract. If they were to do something like that next offseason it is very likely they would not be awarded a comp pick.
Posted on 4/24/17 at 10:59 am to keakar
Doesn't Butler hold the most leverage here? If the Saints and Butler have a contract agreement, but NE is holding him for ransom, doesn't it help him to threat a season hold out giving Butler and the Saints more leverage for NE to get something for him?
Unfortunately NE has the history to hold tight on these situations and more times than not they have got the other team to crack. See Deion Branch. They may just call Butler's bluff then.
Unfortunately NE has the history to hold tight on these situations and more times than not they have got the other team to crack. See Deion Branch. They may just call Butler's bluff then.
Posted on 4/24/17 at 11:03 am to sicboy
Sounds like NE and NO are covering their asses with the league to show that no negotiations occurred prior to Butler signing his tender.
Posted on 4/24/17 at 11:04 am to LSU ATC
How does Butler have ANY leverage at this point?
Posted on 4/24/17 at 11:17 am to SaintEB
He signed his tender so he could be traded, but it gave NE more leverage. Couldn't he holdout at camp for a deal or contract extension? I am sure he is not happy with NE giving the big contract to another corener while he is required to play the season with no long term deal in place and an agreement already in place with another team.
Posted on 4/24/17 at 11:21 am to LSU ATC
quote:
If the Saints and Butler have a contract agreement, but NE is holding him for ransom, doesn't it help him to threat a season hold out giving Butler and the Saints more leverage for NE to get something for him?
He wouldn't accrue a season if he held out
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