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Message

Realistic OT options
Posted on 8/15/24 at 8:02 am
Posted on 8/15/24 at 8:02 am
No matter how much of a sunshine pumper you may be, everyone has to admit that Penning has underwhelmed thus far and does not look to be promising starter at RT for the season up to this point.
Free Agents:
-Donovan Smith played for Chiefs on 1yr/$3M deal last season at LT. Smith has been very durable throughout his career. I would have signed him prior to training camp even if it was for more than that salary and even if it meant drafting Fuaga to battle & cross train between LT & RT and between Smith & Penning.
-Charles Leno Jr was cut by Washington, would be a plug and play guy that would be an upgrade over Penning
Trade potential:
-Bengals have 3 potential starters at T; Trent Brown at RT is only real option in final year of contract. Orlando Brown is at LT, and they drafted Amarius Mims in 1st rd.
-Steelers have potential starters at T; Dan Moore Jr could be an option since they drafted Broderick Jones 1st rd in 2023 & Troy Fautanu 1st rd this year
-Jets have 3 potential starters at T; Morgan Moses is only real option in final year of contract, but still unlikely since they just traded for him this offseason. Tyron Smith is too much $$$. Olu Fashuna drafted 1st rd/#11 this year.
Penning Optimism:
-Minimal playing time/growth opportunity--Even though he's entering his 3rd season he's still only got 5 games of playing time due to injury early in his rookie season that restricted him to only being able to play in 2 games in 2022 and only played 3 games in 2023, though 2023 was in large part due to his own play.
-In game progression--Even though 2023 was subpar he did seem to show slight progress in each game. 2024 preseason game 1 was the same as his 2023 season, subpar but got better with each of the 3 possessions.
-New position--Learning new position from LT to RT, should stand to reason he should get better with each game. By all accounts he seems to have a good work ethic and no attitude or laziness issues. Camp reports have been mixed on him, some bad days but also some good days. Granderson, Jordan, Young, Turner may not be all-pros but they are all talented enough to beat most OTs on any given play.
-Kubiak--A good scheme/plan of attack and good timing of & situational playcalling can mask some inefficiencies at any position. He doesn't have to win every rep, but needs to be able to occupy defender long enough at least.
Penning Pessimism:
-Subpar play--Clearly not enough good film, and several bad plays displaying small school level technique. Even if he showed a 50% win/snap rate that would be a sigh of relief.
-Starts too slow--Glad he showed some progression with each possession last week, but starting that slow cannot be standard operating procedure for any starter.
I would not have gone into 2024 season with Penning being my best option on paper at starting RT with no real backup on the roster! He should have been given an opportunity to compete for the spot but not handed it like this.
Oli Udoh #74 has had his name pop up several times for good reports during camp. I noticed this mainly by Underhill, and I wondered at the time if Nick was setting that up if/when Penning underperformed that he could say "I've been saying all along Udoh is right there and had a decent camp". Watching Udoh the other night I did not see anything to suggest he was a better option from that game alone. Udoh played four seasons for Vikings, but he only started during the 2021 season and that was at RG and he had 16 penalties that year. I have not seen any snaps of him aside from last week's game. Will be interested to see his play in the remaining preseason games.
Underhill absolutely dogged Lucas Patrick's play against the Cardinals last week, and I just don't get it. I don't see how anybody could not have viewed him as at least "serviceable" at the worst. Did have a few bad plays and looked like a missed assignment or communication on a run play, but that's to be expected somewhat in first preseason game of year, let alone when 3/5 of the line is new, and he didn't get all of the camp snaps because Saldaveri was starter before injury.
Maybe when Saldaveri gets back he could be placed at RT and Patrick/Udoh battle it at LG, but I don't think that'll happen since Saldaveri got 0 reps at RT in camp
TL;DR if Penning has a less than favorable game this week, RT HAS to be addressed, what do you do? My 1st option would be sign Donovan Smith as a FA 1yr rental and not give up draft capitol or players needed for any trades.
Free Agents:
-Donovan Smith played for Chiefs on 1yr/$3M deal last season at LT. Smith has been very durable throughout his career. I would have signed him prior to training camp even if it was for more than that salary and even if it meant drafting Fuaga to battle & cross train between LT & RT and between Smith & Penning.
-Charles Leno Jr was cut by Washington, would be a plug and play guy that would be an upgrade over Penning
Trade potential:
-Bengals have 3 potential starters at T; Trent Brown at RT is only real option in final year of contract. Orlando Brown is at LT, and they drafted Amarius Mims in 1st rd.
-Steelers have potential starters at T; Dan Moore Jr could be an option since they drafted Broderick Jones 1st rd in 2023 & Troy Fautanu 1st rd this year
-Jets have 3 potential starters at T; Morgan Moses is only real option in final year of contract, but still unlikely since they just traded for him this offseason. Tyron Smith is too much $$$. Olu Fashuna drafted 1st rd/#11 this year.
Penning Optimism:
-Minimal playing time/growth opportunity--Even though he's entering his 3rd season he's still only got 5 games of playing time due to injury early in his rookie season that restricted him to only being able to play in 2 games in 2022 and only played 3 games in 2023, though 2023 was in large part due to his own play.
-In game progression--Even though 2023 was subpar he did seem to show slight progress in each game. 2024 preseason game 1 was the same as his 2023 season, subpar but got better with each of the 3 possessions.
-New position--Learning new position from LT to RT, should stand to reason he should get better with each game. By all accounts he seems to have a good work ethic and no attitude or laziness issues. Camp reports have been mixed on him, some bad days but also some good days. Granderson, Jordan, Young, Turner may not be all-pros but they are all talented enough to beat most OTs on any given play.
-Kubiak--A good scheme/plan of attack and good timing of & situational playcalling can mask some inefficiencies at any position. He doesn't have to win every rep, but needs to be able to occupy defender long enough at least.
Penning Pessimism:
-Subpar play--Clearly not enough good film, and several bad plays displaying small school level technique. Even if he showed a 50% win/snap rate that would be a sigh of relief.
-Starts too slow--Glad he showed some progression with each possession last week, but starting that slow cannot be standard operating procedure for any starter.
I would not have gone into 2024 season with Penning being my best option on paper at starting RT with no real backup on the roster! He should have been given an opportunity to compete for the spot but not handed it like this.
Oli Udoh #74 has had his name pop up several times for good reports during camp. I noticed this mainly by Underhill, and I wondered at the time if Nick was setting that up if/when Penning underperformed that he could say "I've been saying all along Udoh is right there and had a decent camp". Watching Udoh the other night I did not see anything to suggest he was a better option from that game alone. Udoh played four seasons for Vikings, but he only started during the 2021 season and that was at RG and he had 16 penalties that year. I have not seen any snaps of him aside from last week's game. Will be interested to see his play in the remaining preseason games.
Underhill absolutely dogged Lucas Patrick's play against the Cardinals last week, and I just don't get it. I don't see how anybody could not have viewed him as at least "serviceable" at the worst. Did have a few bad plays and looked like a missed assignment or communication on a run play, but that's to be expected somewhat in first preseason game of year, let alone when 3/5 of the line is new, and he didn't get all of the camp snaps because Saldaveri was starter before injury.
Maybe when Saldaveri gets back he could be placed at RT and Patrick/Udoh battle it at LG, but I don't think that'll happen since Saldaveri got 0 reps at RT in camp
TL;DR if Penning has a less than favorable game this week, RT HAS to be addressed, what do you do? My 1st option would be sign Donovan Smith as a FA 1yr rental and not give up draft capitol or players needed for any trades.
Posted on 8/15/24 at 8:16 am to Doug_H
i think the next game is gonna be the true look at Penning under the new staff. if he is still that bad, then im not sure how he can be allowed on the field.
he was terrible in G1 preseason, but i was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt since it is a new scheme/O staff, and it was the 1st real game experience under them.
but if game 2 shows no improvement, then im not sure how the staff can justify him seeing the field
he was terrible in G1 preseason, but i was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt since it is a new scheme/O staff, and it was the 1st real game experience under them.
but if game 2 shows no improvement, then im not sure how the staff can justify him seeing the field
Posted on 8/15/24 at 8:30 am to Doug_H
Realistically, this line will suck regardless
Posted on 8/15/24 at 8:41 am to Thracken13
quote:
next game is gonna be the true look at Penning under the new staff
I agree. I know they were very vanilla last week on purpose with 0 game planning and I'm not sure what their original plan for this game was but after last week's performance and then cancelling joint practices with the 49ers, they better have adjusted that plan to include more of Kubiak's offense this week to see how it can truly function with Penning in.
Posted on 8/15/24 at 9:50 am to Doug_H
anyone could be better then what Penning has shown so far
Mims will miss some time for the Bengals due to injury
Mims will miss some time for the Bengals due to injury
This post was edited on 8/15/24 at 9:51 am
Posted on 8/15/24 at 10:55 am to Doug_H
There are no real options. Penning isn’t going to cut it and RT will likely be a rotation of Landon Young, Jessie Bates and/or Olisaemeka Udoh. We will wait until cut down day to see if anyone better than those guys is available.
We have to learn to live with watching Carr step up, force early throws and run for his life. As well as the occasional blown up run play.
We have to learn to live with watching Carr step up, force early throws and run for his life. As well as the occasional blown up run play.
Posted on 8/15/24 at 10:55 am to Doug_H
I just do not see this team making a realistic 180 over the next 3 years. And while I will be rooting for them to win every week they play, the reality is they need to purge the roster, the cap, the scouting department, and the coaching department. That means at some point, you need to stop trying to solve your problems in FA for anyone wanting much more than vet minimum and work with what you have in front of you to let the current contracts naturally work their way off the books (since Loomis made it impossible to cut too many players early) and brace yourself for a rough few years while hopefully loading up on top 10 (top 5 ideally) picks.
This post was edited on 8/15/24 at 10:57 am
Posted on 8/15/24 at 12:43 pm to Doug_H
Out of Penning, Landon Young, and Udoh, all of them looked bad to me.
I had hoped Udoh could be a sleeper starter but after watching the last game I'm not so sure anymore.
I like Landon Youngs size but that's about it. He sucked in that preseason game also.
Penning really is something else as far as how bad he is. Overall I think he played a little better then given credit for. But at his size it's inexcusable for him to have 245 lbs LB's tossing him to the ground. He base is bad and he gets off balance way to easy.
Lucas Patrick was also very meh at Guard. He looked a little better when MCcoy went out and he moved to center.
Overall it's a very sad day that Fuaga a rookie is by far the best olineman we have.
It's ridiculous how the front office has let this line slip and have not signed anybody worth a damn.
Carr is going to get abused and will be injured. Then we will be on to Haener who will likely get injured. Then Rattler will probably get injured also and Taysom will be our full time QB. (Likely injured as well) behind this oline.
I had hoped Udoh could be a sleeper starter but after watching the last game I'm not so sure anymore.
I like Landon Youngs size but that's about it. He sucked in that preseason game also.
Penning really is something else as far as how bad he is. Overall I think he played a little better then given credit for. But at his size it's inexcusable for him to have 245 lbs LB's tossing him to the ground. He base is bad and he gets off balance way to easy.
Lucas Patrick was also very meh at Guard. He looked a little better when MCcoy went out and he moved to center.
Overall it's a very sad day that Fuaga a rookie is by far the best olineman we have.
It's ridiculous how the front office has let this line slip and have not signed anybody worth a damn.
Carr is going to get abused and will be injured. Then we will be on to Haener who will likely get injured. Then Rattler will probably get injured also and Taysom will be our full time QB. (Likely injured as well) behind this oline.
Posted on 8/15/24 at 9:36 pm to Doug_H
Did David Bakhtari get picked up? I know he’s recovering from year long injury but at least he was an all pro recently.
Posted on 8/16/24 at 7:56 am to Doug_H
THE ONLY thing that he has going for him, is that he's not protecting Carr's blind-side.
Posted on 8/16/24 at 7:57 am to Doug_H
quote:
Trade potential: -Bengals have 3 potential starters at T; Trent Brown at RT is only real option in final year of contract. Orlando Brown is at LT, and they drafted Amarius Mims in 1st rd. -Steelers have potential starters at T; Dan Moore Jr could be an option since they drafted Broderick Jones 1st rd in 2023 & Troy Fautanu 1st rd this year -Jets have 3 potential starters at T; Morgan Moses is only real option in final year of contract, but still unlikely since they just traded for him this offseason. Tyron Smith is too much $$$. Olu Fashuna drafted 1st rd/#11 this year.
Who in the world would we trade? Having a 3rd Tackle is worth way more than anything they’d get from us.
Posted on 8/16/24 at 8:21 am to Thracken13
quote:The technique of pass protection isnt changing that much. He is absolutely the worst OT I have ever seen. Any time spent with him on the field is a waste. He should be replaced by anyone, from anywhere....Im talking any FA pick ups, anyone.
he was terrible in G1 preseason, but i was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt since it is a new scheme/O staff, and it was the 1st real game experience under them.
Posted on 8/16/24 at 8:38 am to Doug_H
If anyone was good enough to be on a roster right now they would be
We need to hope some teams cut vets as cost cutting moves because they have cheaper options on cut down day
We need to hope some teams cut vets as cost cutting moves because they have cheaper options on cut down day
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