- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
Payton offense vs kubiak offense?
Posted on 9/16/24 at 6:54 am
Posted on 9/16/24 at 6:54 am
If the personnel is the same, would Payton's offense be this good? Shockingly, could we actually be better off without Peyton right now?
5
Posted on 9/16/24 at 7:24 am to msstate7
Payton's offense is super complicated and tries to win by being more complicated than the defense can react to. They line up and there is always supposed to be a solution for what the defense presents. That's why they don't do things like motion.
It doesn't really work anymore, especially without a QB like Brees. There is a reason his coaching tree has failed outside of a TE coach who jumped over OC to become a head coach (who promoted a guy to OC who doesn't run anything similar to the Payton offense).
The Shannahan/McVay offense variants of the WCO try to use lots of motion and passing off the running game to scheme guys open. It's primary focus is on rushing, not for rushing itself, but to create the lanes for chunk plays. Kubiak has transformed our rushing game and it's revitalized what was thought to be the worst OL in the NFL and an ancient RB into a top rushing offense. That's simplifying the game for Carr, which he needs to hide his deficiencies.
The old offense put too much on his shoulders and he's not that guy.
It doesn't really work anymore, especially without a QB like Brees. There is a reason his coaching tree has failed outside of a TE coach who jumped over OC to become a head coach (who promoted a guy to OC who doesn't run anything similar to the Payton offense).
The Shannahan/McVay offense variants of the WCO try to use lots of motion and passing off the running game to scheme guys open. It's primary focus is on rushing, not for rushing itself, but to create the lanes for chunk plays. Kubiak has transformed our rushing game and it's revitalized what was thought to be the worst OL in the NFL and an ancient RB into a top rushing offense. That's simplifying the game for Carr, which he needs to hide his deficiencies.
The old offense put too much on his shoulders and he's not that guy.
This post was edited on 9/16/24 at 7:26 am
Posted on 9/16/24 at 7:25 am to msstate7
I think it’s becoming some what apparent that the Peyton offense requires an elite level QB to be successful. Which he had in Brees. I don’t know that it works without that level of QB.
Kubiak has strung two stellar games together making Derek Carr look like the best QB in the league…. which we know he’s not
Guess we’ll see how the rest of the season plays out!
Kubiak has strung two stellar games together making Derek Carr look like the best QB in the league…. which we know he’s not
Guess we’ll see how the rest of the season plays out! Posted on 9/16/24 at 7:33 am to msstate7
Saints Offense plays 16 pass plays and 39 rush plays. When was the last time Sean Payton called a game like that? I
Posted on 9/16/24 at 7:39 am to msstate7
The only reason Payton was successful in NOLA was because of Brees. End of story.
Posted on 9/16/24 at 7:39 am to SlowFlowPro
Correct. I love the new scheme, but Carr is still Carr. Eventually a good DC will come up with a plan to stop the run, and Carr will need to win a game. Can he?
Posted on 9/16/24 at 7:48 am to BTRDD
Last game with JW?
Posted on 9/16/24 at 7:49 am to TigerFanNKaty
Carr has been much better than Carr!
Posted on 9/16/24 at 8:01 am to msstate7
What I love about this Kubiak offense are the number of runs around the perimeter. It works well with a back like Kamara who is quick enough to get to the edge and utilizing WRs like Shaheed on sweeps. Early in games it may prove to be just as productive as running between the tackles but over time, perimeter running tends to tire the defensive front 7 quicker because the extra effort it takes to defend those plays. And with a tired front 7, the offense can block easier on subsequent plays.
Posted on 9/16/24 at 8:11 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
The old offense put too much on his shoulders and he's not that guy.
I agree with this. Carr can be accurate with the ball. Most of the time he is accurate. He consistently has a nice deep ball and decent touch passes. When he makes mistakes, I could be wrong, it always seems like he misses over the intermediate middle.
The thing about Payton and Drew Brees, Brees was very accurate with the ball and could slip the ball through tight spaces with the best of them. Carr is not that.
Posted on 9/16/24 at 8:42 am to BTRDD
quote:
Saints Offense plays 16 pass plays and 39 rush plays. When was the last time Sean Payton called a game like that? I
I remember one game in maybe 2013 or so where the saints didn't ru the ball until the middle of the 2nd quarter.
Posted on 9/16/24 at 8:44 am to TigerFanNKaty
quote:
Correct. I love the new scheme, but Carr is still Carr. Eventually a good DC will come up with a plan to stop the run, and Carr will need to win a game. Can he?
There is a reason Shanahan can be successful with just serviceable QB play like they get from Purdy. The system makes things easy to read and teh QB just has to be able to make the throws.
Posted on 9/16/24 at 11:25 am to Bert Macklin FBI
Carr is a good QB not great.A good coach,Kubiak ,knows how to mask
a teams deficiencies .Last season Pete couldn`t do that,he had Carr drop
back 7 yds and then make decisions.Kubiak has Carr make decisions at
the line of scrimage based on how the D lines up.that allows him to make
quick decisions and doesnt hold on to the ball to long.
Defenses will adjust and Kubiak will have to also,we`ll see how it goes.
a teams deficiencies .Last season Pete couldn`t do that,he had Carr drop
back 7 yds and then make decisions.Kubiak has Carr make decisions at
the line of scrimage based on how the D lines up.that allows him to make
quick decisions and doesnt hold on to the ball to long.
Defenses will adjust and Kubiak will have to also,we`ll see how it goes.
Posted on 9/16/24 at 11:40 am to RGT
quote:
Defenses will adjust and Kubiak will have to also,we`ll see how it goes.
That is true UNLESS we can run the ball this effectively every game. You can't adjust to getting your shite kicked in.
Posted on 9/16/24 at 11:47 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Payton's offense is super complicated and tries to win by being more complicated than the defense can react to. They line up and there is always supposed to be a solution for what the defense presents. That's why they don't do things like motion.
I believe Payton's early offense was very similar to Kubiaks current offense. Paytons early years offense had a lot of pre snap motion for the same reason Kubiaks offense now has lots of motion. There was a lot of pushing the ball down the field to stretch the defense and using lots of different weapons and looks.
In Paytons early years offense, Bush was used in the Taysom role of lining up all over the offense to get a mismatch on the defense for Bush or someone else. Post 2011, Paytons offense lost its creative energy and became a dink, dink, dink offense.
Page 1 of 1
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News