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re: If Brock Bowers or Rome Odunze are still on the board at 14, do you take one of them?
Posted on 4/8/24 at 11:40 am to High Life
Posted on 4/8/24 at 11:40 am to High Life
quote:
One of Verse, Latham, or Dallas Turner could be there at 14.
Where is the elite, let alone unicorn-level elite prospect to compare to Bowers?
Latham?
He'd be a 2nd or 3rd rounder in an OT class with elite talent at the top.
3
Posted on 4/8/24 at 11:49 am to High Life
quote:
"TEs run less routes" isn't a good argument for drafting them higher. He produces more per given opportunity but we can't give him as much opportunity because he's a TE.
I alreay posted this with regards to his production. He’s a stud anyway you want to quantify it
quote:
Receiving Yards Before 21st Birthday
+ Top-45 players on @dpbrugler 's Big Board
1. Malik Nabers (3,003)
2. Brock Bowers (2,538)
3. Troy Franklin (2,483)
4. Rome Odunze (1,632)
5. Keon Coleman (1,506)
6. Marvin Harrison Jr. (1,402)
7. Brian Thomas Jr. (1,257)
8. Ladd McConkey (954)
10. Roman Wilson (542)
11. Adonai Mitchell (495)
What about his production as an 18 year old freshman on a Natty team? 25 more receptions than the next closest guy. 435 more yards than the next closest WR. 8 more TDs. The trend that continued for two more seasons, better than WRs who will be drafted in the top 3 rounds
quote:
You are describing exactly why tight ends aren't drafted early, and why they aren't paid as much. There are at least 70 OL/DL/WRs that are paid more than the highest paid TE. Think about that for a second
Ya it would be terrible for a team in cap hell to get a Travis Kelce, Kittle, Mark Andrews for a bargain. You think about that for second bubba. They are a salary cap cheat code. Cesar Ruiz is a $50 mil dollar man. Kenny Golladay for $72 mil.
Posted on 4/8/24 at 11:51 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Where is the elite, let alone unicorn-level elite prospect to compare to Bowers?
Latham?
He'd be a 2nd or 3rd rounder in an OT class with elite talent at the top.
Latham has the highest OT grade in the draft. He's a freak of nature and the only reason people are a little down on him is he's such a large human and he plays RT. Well I like my lineman to be big and last time I checked we need a RT too. I'm not sure what your going off of. We can't look at draft grades, we can't look at production, and we cant look at value of position. How about team needs? I'm supposed to look at unicorn fairy hype and jet sweeps. Cool man this is just your opinion at this point and you're entitled to it but your argument has no substance.
Posted on 4/8/24 at 11:59 am to GynoSandberg
quote:
Ya it would be terrible for a team in cap hell to get a Travis Kelce, Kittle, Mark Andrews for a bargain. You think about that for second bubba. They are a salary cap cheat code. Cesar Ruiz is a $50 mil dollar man. Kenny Golladay for $72 mil.
We are going to pay our pick the same regardless of what position he plays.
So wouldn't you rather draft a position that typically costs more? I'd rather get a starting O-lineman "on a budget"
quote:
What about his production as an 18 year old freshman on a Natty team? 25 more receptions than the next closest guy. 435 more yards than the next closest WR. 8 more TDs. The trend that continued for two more seasons, better than WRs who will be drafted in the top 3 rounds
If you look at it he's actually regressed each year. I'm really not trying to shite on Bowers. I think he'll do well in the NFL. Just dont think he's worth the #14 pick and not the right fit for us right now.
This post was edited on 4/8/24 at 12:04 pm
Posted on 4/8/24 at 12:01 pm to High Life
quote:
I'm supposed to look at unicorn fairy hype
3 years of dominant production is "unicorn fairy hype"?
quote:
Latham has the highest OT grade in the draft.
Where?
Posted on 4/8/24 at 12:07 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
3 years of dominant production is "unicorn fairy hype"?
700 yards and 6 tds doesn't get my pecker hard im sorry. 17 touchdowns from Brian Thomas on the other hand.
quote:
quote:
Latham has the highest OT grade in the draft.
Where?
LINK
Posted on 4/8/24 at 12:27 pm to High Life
quote:
We are going to pay our pick the same regardless of what position he plays.
So wouldn't you rather draft a position that typically costs more? I'd rather get a starting O-lineman "on a budget"
This is nuts. You’ve double and tripled down on equating a player’s hit rate based on his second contract. So we care about rookie contracts now? Take a QB then if you want a position that costs more. You act like we are talking about taking a kicker
quote:
If you look at it he's actually regressed each year.
He went from 938 yards from scrimmage and 14 TDs as a frosh to 1,051 yards and 10 TDs as a 19 yr old soph. Both in 15 games. Year 3 he only played 10 games. You are talking about a teenager on the best team in the nation. I see your attempted angle here, let’s at least be honest, you seem smarter than that
Posted on 4/8/24 at 12:59 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
This is nuts. You’ve double and tripled down on equating a player’s hit rate based on his second contract. So we care about rookie contracts now? Take a QB then if you want a position that costs more. You act like we are talking about taking a kicker
I wasn’t equating shite about a players hit rate and his next contract. That just happened to be the first study I found. It’s common sense that lineman hit at a higher rate than other positions. Go find some data that disproves it if you want.
Im not going to base my #14 ovr. draft pick on trying to save money 4 years from now. Paying $17 million for an elite tackle for 4 years saves us money now. There’s never a guarantee you can resign any player so why would that be in our decision making process.
Posted on 4/8/24 at 1:06 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
This is nuts. You’ve double and tripled down on equating a player’s hit rate based on his second contract. So we care about rookie contracts now? Take a QB then if you want a position that costs more. You act like we are talking about taking a kicker
I think the point he's making is if you draft a TE at 14, you're already paying him the equivalent of a top TE's 2nd contract. A good OT drafted at the same spot and paid the same money will be a relative bargain for 4-5 years until his 2nd contract.
This puts so much pressure on the TE to be a star that the team takes advantage of immediately.
Posted on 4/8/24 at 1:08 pm to Handsome Pete
quote:
A good OT drafted at the same spot and paid the same money will be a relative bargain for 4-5 years until his 2nd contract.
Stop making sense!! Basic common sense that’s been used in the nfl for decades now!!
Posted on 4/8/24 at 1:29 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Where is the elite, let alone unicorn-level elite prospect to compare to Bowers?
Is Bowers a unicorn? I don’t think he’s 6-6 running a 4.39 40 yard dash with a 45 inch vertical. Not saying his production in college wasn’t good, but he played on a great team and had good players and good coaches. He isn’t a once in a generation talent.
Posted on 4/8/24 at 1:41 pm to Handsome Pete
quote:
think the point he's making is if you draft a TE at 14, you're already paying him the equivalent of a top TE's 2nd contract
The total value of the contract for the 14th pick last year was $17.8 mil. Now it will go up a little this year but There’s 21 TEs on deals of at least $17 mil, from George Kittle at $75 mil to Mo Alie Cox at $17.5. Foster Moreau is making $12.3
quote:
A good OT drafted at the same spot and paid the same money will be a relative bargain for 4-5 years until his 2nd contract.
I’d still like to know who the good OTs are in you and high life’s eyes. You’re just going to take every OT with a first rd grade over Bowers? There’s been a lot irrelevant stuff posted, no one wants to talk about 2024 and assess the players at hand. If you have time to list the tackles you’re taking over him I’d love to hear it
FTR I would sleep well at night with Alt or Olu over Bowers
Posted on 4/8/24 at 1:56 pm to Suntiger
quote:
Is Bowers a unicorn? I don’t think he’s 6-6 running a 4.39 40 yard dash with a 45 inch vertica
He ran 4.4 and had a 40 inch vert as a high school sophomore. Think about that. He’s not 6’6” 260. Neither are guys like Tyreek Hill, Aaron Donald, Micah Parsons. No one is disparaging their freakinest due to size, I reckon.
Which LBs or DBs are going to match him? That’s all it boils down to
Posted on 4/8/24 at 2:24 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
I’d still like to know who the good OTs are in you and high life’s eyes. You’re just going to take every OT with a first rd grade over Bowers?
Guys of the top of my head no order:
Alt
Latham
Fautanu
Fuaga
Fashanu
D-linemen:
Verse
Turner
Chop
Latu
Byron Murphy
WRs:
Nabers
Odunze
BTJ
Posted on 4/8/24 at 2:34 pm to SlowFlowPro
In any year Latham is a bottom of the 1st top of the 2nd round RT. He's only 21 with 2 years of starts. He will have his bumps but I bet he can start day one.
Posted on 4/8/24 at 2:51 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
He went from 938 yards from scrimmage and 14 TDs as a frosh to 1,051 yards and 10 TDs as a 19 yr old soph. Both in 15 games. Year 3 he only played 10 games. You are talking about a teenager on the best team in the nation.
quote:
He ran 4.4 and had a 40 inch vert as a high school sophomore. Think about that
Also, why are yall so obsessed with his age. I couldn't give two shits how dominant he was in highschool. Some players develop early, some peak early, and some peak late. He's a very good player but the way yall drool over him, you'd think he had 25 touchdowns last year.
Posted on 4/8/24 at 3:50 pm to High Life
Being a 99 percentile athlete is relevant to the conversation. The only testing data we have on him is from HS
His age 18 and 19 seasons are unprecedented. It’s convenient to just dismiss everything that makes him special
His age 18 and 19 seasons are unprecedented. It’s convenient to just dismiss everything that makes him special
Posted on 4/8/24 at 3:53 pm to High Life
I just think Bowers is a guy who’s going to be a stud at the next level. And it’s pretty obvious from watching his film. I see no reason he can’t come in and have an immediate impact.
Now whether we take him as possible BPA over perhaps a bigger need at OT is another question.
Now whether we take him as possible BPA over perhaps a bigger need at OT is another question.
This post was edited on 4/8/24 at 3:56 pm
Posted on 4/8/24 at 4:34 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
His age 18 and 19 seasons are unprecedented. It’s convenient to just dismiss everything that makes him special
I don’t dismiss that he’s a stud or that he’s done some cool things. I don’t dismiss that he’s a great TE prospect. He’s a fun player who will sell jerseys. It would be an exciting pick. But if I’m being objective, if I’m looking at the tangibles, it makes much more sense to draft a position of value/need.
Posted on 4/9/24 at 7:19 am to High Life
quote:
it makes much more sense to draft a position of value/need.
Need? No
Value? The problem is y'all are thinking of value in terms of the 2024 draft alone. The OTs and Edges who fall to us are all severely flawed and not elite prospects for a reason.
Turner is smallish and more an athlete than a football player.
Verse is old, is not prototypical size, and lacks explosiveness.
Latu would be a super elite prospect...except he has a major injury red flag.
Fuaga is a OG teams are trying to convince themselves is an OT.
Fautanu is more athlete than ready-made OL and is likely a guard, too
Latham and Mims are huge guys with athleticism who are a few years away.
If we are dismissing TE value, then the value position we likely have to make a decision on at 14 is CB, b/c 1 of the 2 elite guys is almost assuredly going to fall to us.
The 2 DIs at the top of the draft will likely be an option, but I'm not sure if they're a fit next to Bresee. We could theoretically have a killer 4-man pass rush but we could get destroyed by power running teams.
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