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Posted on 12/20/12 at 2:27 am to loyalauron
quote:
it needs to be a tier 1 pass rusher
Completely agree.
I wouldn't be on board with going after Welker because it would be ridiculous to do so. I am just saying I'd love to have that guy on our team if it were possible. But, it isn't. We have receivers, we have to address other needs like DE.
Posted on 12/20/12 at 10:27 am to CocoLoco
how bout some top free agent DE talk then...
Dwight Freeney- he's older than Will Smith, 33 in 2013, premier pass rusher, still has some gas left but certainly not looking at any upside, I'd guess someone will do a 3-4 year deal backloaded that makes him cuttable after a year or two.
Cliff Avril- 27 next year, a player in his prime right now, 8.5 & 11 sacks 2010-11, At 9.5 this year, 6-3 260 ideal pass rusher build, Lions couldn't come to terms and tagged him. More talk that it is more likely he walks than they get a deal done. Will command a mega deal I doubt the Saints could afford capwise. The only question about him is how much have his stats been helped by being on such a good overall D line (see Ray Edwards Minn to Atl)
Osi Umenyiora- another guy 32 next year. Same as Freeney, can get some decent bucks but no mega long term deal. He's had a fair amount of injuries so prolly cheaper than Freeney. One of these short term guys would primo paired with a 1st Rd DE like Montgomery,
Michael Johnson- 3rd Rd pick in his 4th season. At 26 next season he looks like a player just breaching into breakout/dominant range- 6 sacks last year in 5 starts, 8.5 so far thus yr. Seems like it's taken the Bengals a while to figure how to use him best too. He might be higher dollar as a player recognized by front offices but not over the top scale cuz he isn't full fledged dominant yet. Getting him would make drafting a DE a secondary priority.
those are my big names on the top of the list, any others?
Do ya like the idea of one of those? Which one? Why?
Dwight Freeney- he's older than Will Smith, 33 in 2013, premier pass rusher, still has some gas left but certainly not looking at any upside, I'd guess someone will do a 3-4 year deal backloaded that makes him cuttable after a year or two.
Cliff Avril- 27 next year, a player in his prime right now, 8.5 & 11 sacks 2010-11, At 9.5 this year, 6-3 260 ideal pass rusher build, Lions couldn't come to terms and tagged him. More talk that it is more likely he walks than they get a deal done. Will command a mega deal I doubt the Saints could afford capwise. The only question about him is how much have his stats been helped by being on such a good overall D line (see Ray Edwards Minn to Atl)
Osi Umenyiora- another guy 32 next year. Same as Freeney, can get some decent bucks but no mega long term deal. He's had a fair amount of injuries so prolly cheaper than Freeney. One of these short term guys would primo paired with a 1st Rd DE like Montgomery,
Michael Johnson- 3rd Rd pick in his 4th season. At 26 next season he looks like a player just breaching into breakout/dominant range- 6 sacks last year in 5 starts, 8.5 so far thus yr. Seems like it's taken the Bengals a while to figure how to use him best too. He might be higher dollar as a player recognized by front offices but not over the top scale cuz he isn't full fledged dominant yet. Getting him would make drafting a DE a secondary priority.
those are my big names on the top of the list, any others?
Do ya like the idea of one of those? Which one? Why?
Posted on 12/20/12 at 11:39 am to blueslover
In order from don't want to want.
4.) Freeny - No. Old/Injury prone/One trick pony/declining skill level
3.) Osi - I'd take him, but some team like the Raiders is going to overpay him.
2.) Avril - Would be pricey, but we need a guy like him on this defense.
1.) Johnson - Probably wouldn't cost as much as Avril but just as good and nabbing him when he's ready to reach his prime.
I think it also depends on who we draft as well.
4.) Freeny - No. Old/Injury prone/One trick pony/declining skill level
3.) Osi - I'd take him, but some team like the Raiders is going to overpay him.
2.) Avril - Would be pricey, but we need a guy like him on this defense.
1.) Johnson - Probably wouldn't cost as much as Avril but just as good and nabbing him when he's ready to reach his prime.
I think it also depends on who we draft as well.
Posted on 12/20/12 at 11:54 am to Suntiger
quote:
I think it also depends on who we draft as well.
you mean the other way, free agency comes first, so who is signed or let go will have the bigger effect on the draft need factor
Posted on 12/20/12 at 11:56 am to blueslover
quote:
you mean the other way, free agency comes first, so who is signed or let go will have the bigger effect on the draft need factor
This post was edited on 12/20/12 at 11:57 am
Posted on 12/20/12 at 1:50 pm to blueslover
quote:quote:
I think it also depends on who we draft as well.
you mean the other way, free agency comes first, so who is signed or let go will have the bigger effect on the draft need factor
By the time of Free Agency, we will know where we are drafting and have an idea of what we want. If we are in position to take Moore or Mingo we won't pay big money for a FA DE. If we want to go with Jones or Millner or Elam or a DT we need to go ahead and pay for Johnson or Avril.
Posted on 12/20/12 at 2:25 pm to blueslover
In an ideal world, I would like the Saints to sign Dwight Freeney to a short contract, probably 2 years. He can come in to be the Darren Sharper type of one year rental. I think he should have at least one more year of high production. Then we draft his successor in the first round. As a rookie the successor gets limited playing time to grow into the starting role. The second year, the successor starts while Freeney gets limited action. The obvious problem with this is that there is no way of telling if a DE is going to be there in the 1st round that is worth picking and capable of taking that role.
The scenario that I am trying to illustrate is basically what would have happened with Sharper and Jenkins if Jenkins would have worked out better.
I'm just not incredibly impressed with Michael Johnson, although he could end up being very good for us. Avril would be too expensive, and the cost to performance ratio probably wouldn't be in our favor. Osi might be similar to Freeney, though I prefer Freeney for gut reasons.
The scenario that I am trying to illustrate is basically what would have happened with Sharper and Jenkins if Jenkins would have worked out better.
I'm just not incredibly impressed with Michael Johnson, although he could end up being very good for us. Avril would be too expensive, and the cost to performance ratio probably wouldn't be in our favor. Osi might be similar to Freeney, though I prefer Freeney for gut reasons.
Posted on 12/20/12 at 4:48 pm to Peazey
all aboard the Michael Johnson pain train! I'm handing out tickets
love the wingspan, 38.5" vertical added to his 6'7" frame is almost 9'
love the wingspan, 38.5" vertical added to his 6'7" frame is almost 9'
Posted on 12/21/12 at 3:35 pm to Peazey
quote:
In an ideal world, I would like the Saints to sign Dwight Freeney to a short contract, probably 2 years
He will want more years, but no team is giving him guaranteed money over 2 years. You would think players would start to realize that any contract over 2 years is going to be voided or player will be cut unless he is willing to renegotiate. At the same time, how many teams are willing to put up a front loaded $ contract?
Posted on 12/22/12 at 11:24 pm to THRILLHO
Payton and Mickey will find a way to play with the funny numbers !!
Posted on 12/24/12 at 3:21 pm to LSUFM57
anybody else switch over to the Bengals-Steelers games during Saints game breaks?
Enjoyed catching some of Johnson in real time game flow. The identifiable impact skills are undeniable. I'd call him a very good but not yet dominant pass rusher. The key is career development path. He's definitely still going upwards in his path of progression. I dunno how Spags might view him as a fit for this team and how he works guys schematically. But as a value addition he looks to be in a great spot as a potential signee. That is, he'll get a very good contract but wouldn't be over the top expensive as an established dominant player.
Signing him would put a pass rusher in the 1st Rd on the back burner unless it was an overwhelming BPA- and that doesn't happen with pass rush specialists.
Whoever the front office would like between a Freeney or Osi type guy for a year I wouldn't care much. You could get a player like that to fill the gap a little bit along with a primo 1st Rd pass rusher. Sumpin like how we squeezed the last bit of prime time skills and performance out of Sharper that he had left in the tank.
Enjoyed catching some of Johnson in real time game flow. The identifiable impact skills are undeniable. I'd call him a very good but not yet dominant pass rusher. The key is career development path. He's definitely still going upwards in his path of progression. I dunno how Spags might view him as a fit for this team and how he works guys schematically. But as a value addition he looks to be in a great spot as a potential signee. That is, he'll get a very good contract but wouldn't be over the top expensive as an established dominant player.
Signing him would put a pass rusher in the 1st Rd on the back burner unless it was an overwhelming BPA- and that doesn't happen with pass rush specialists.
Whoever the front office would like between a Freeney or Osi type guy for a year I wouldn't care much. You could get a player like that to fill the gap a little bit along with a primo 1st Rd pass rusher. Sumpin like how we squeezed the last bit of prime time skills and performance out of Sharper that he had left in the tank.
Posted on 12/24/12 at 9:42 pm to blueslover
I like Johnson, but he plays on the best Defensive line in the NFL. So the same argument applies, how much is he helped out by that?
Posted on 12/24/12 at 10:51 pm to ATLienTiger
Im thinking Sedrick Ellis...does he stay or will he be traded or released maybe?... 
Posted on 12/25/12 at 5:01 pm to lovinLSU
quote:
Sedrick Ellis...does he stay or will he be traded or released maybe?
No trading or releasing, his contract is up. After shafting the Saints for over $33 million I doubt they would want him back even at minimum.
Posted on 12/25/12 at 5:22 pm to blueslover
I can't see Ellis coming back.
In my ideal world, we'd sign M. Johnson, draft J. Jones, sign Moore out of Atl and resign Tracy Porter.
Jordan, Hicks, Bunkley, Johnson & Gallette on the DL,
Jones, Lofton, Vilma & Hawthorn at LB,
Greer, PRob, Patrick, White & Porter at CB, and
Jenkins, Moore, IAQ & Bush at safety.
In my ideal world, we'd sign M. Johnson, draft J. Jones, sign Moore out of Atl and resign Tracy Porter.
Jordan, Hicks, Bunkley, Johnson & Gallette on the DL,
Jones, Lofton, Vilma & Hawthorn at LB,
Greer, PRob, Patrick, White & Porter at CB, and
Jenkins, Moore, IAQ & Bush at safety.
Posted on 12/25/12 at 5:38 pm to Suntiger
quote:
resign Tracy Porter.
Is this even possible? I would love this move.
Posted on 12/25/12 at 6:08 pm to Shalimar Sid
blues brought this up the other day. Looks like he's been passed up in Denver. We could sign him to a one year 'show me' contract. We'll probably only get 6-8 games out of him, but we know that going in.
That's of course unless someone else wants to pay him more money.
That's of course unless someone else wants to pay him more money.
Posted on 12/25/12 at 8:35 pm to Suntiger
yup, Porter only had a one year deal in Denver.
Along with Osi add Justin Tuck as a market possibility
Umenyiora and Tuck top the list of potential big names that could be let go.
Gmen done
Prolly spendier than Osi but more miles left. With Spags experience there it would likely be his call if they found enough cap space to have one.
Along with Osi add Justin Tuck as a market possibility
Umenyiora and Tuck top the list of potential big names that could be let go.
Gmen done
Prolly spendier than Osi but more miles left. With Spags experience there it would likely be his call if they found enough cap space to have one.
Posted on 12/25/12 at 8:41 pm to blueslover
Tucks going to get big money from somebody. And if we did sign him, I doubt we'd be able to upgrade any other defensive positions besides through the draft. And we'd probably still have to lose Vilma, Harper and Smith to do it.
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