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Message
re: Falcons fans having a petition to fire Moreli
Posted on 12/28/17 at 7:49 pm to DoubleDown
Posted on 12/28/17 at 7:49 pm to DoubleDown
quote:
Look at the goddamn dumbass ref not even on the line. No wonder it didn't look like a TD to him. Idiot.
That angle would actually make it look more like a touchdown than if his perspective was on the line or slightly behind the goal line. But, oh well, he still didn’t score.
0
Posted on 12/28/17 at 7:54 pm to saintthetiger93
I just finished carefully watching the game on my DVR. The Refs called a close game. NOLA had a couple of holding penalties on the O-line that I simply could not discern no matter how many times I might re-watch the play.
Some of the calls that hurt the Falcons were also close calls. Other calls against the Falcons were, like the two Saints holding calls I mentioned, not discernable on the telecast recording.
I could not discern any blatantly bad or wrong call in the entire game. I could not identify even one instance in which the officials made an obviously inconsistent call compared to other similar calls in that game.
I conclude that "garden-variety Fan Bias" is the explanation for the number of Falcons fans that find fault with the Officiating in the game.
Some of the calls that hurt the Falcons were also close calls. Other calls against the Falcons were, like the two Saints holding calls I mentioned, not discernable on the telecast recording.
I could not discern any blatantly bad or wrong call in the entire game. I could not identify even one instance in which the officials made an obviously inconsistent call compared to other similar calls in that game.
I conclude that "garden-variety Fan Bias" is the explanation for the number of Falcons fans that find fault with the Officiating in the game.
Posted on 12/28/17 at 8:01 pm to DoubleDown
quote:
That play doesn't happen if you give Julio the TD he scored.
With great care, I reviewed this play in which you with certainty conclude that Julio scored a TD. I find that your conclusion is inaccurate, based on the facts clearly discernable in the recording of the telecast.
By the time Julio gained clear possession of the football, he was no longer holding the ball in intersection with, or "over" the Goal Line.
The telecast cameras recording the game provided insufficient clarity to allow observation down to the nanosecond, so there is some blurriness. As such, it is impossible for anyone to proclaim with certainty that it was a TD.
The Ref on the field made the call. The call was reviewed and the call stood.
In conclusion, I say that "Fan Bias" is the explanation for the many Falcons fans who insist that Julio scored a TD on the play.
Perhaps in the future, Sark should be careful to design the play such that Julio's route takes him more decisively over the Goal Line. If you require the Ref to make the call on a WR on his "tippy toes", you may not get the call you want.
Posted on 12/28/17 at 8:13 pm to saintthetiger93
quote:
They’re still mad
i'd imagine they have been dating back to their Super Bowl choke job.
That one will age with the finest of wines
This post was edited on 12/28/17 at 8:15 pm
Posted on 12/28/17 at 9:28 pm to CocoLoco
quote:
Atlanta had 16 more yards than NO, 1st downs were even. Many of those yards/1st downs came on a garbage time drive with theSaints playing some prevent. Saints defense made bigger plays, and Saints offense controlled the ball more.
Yep, when the Saints put the game away going up 3 scores with under 4 minutes to go, these were the stats:
Falcons - Saints
Yards: 245 to 319
FDs: 12 to 15
Yards per Play: 4.9 vs 5.6
The interception returned to the 2 that Freeman fumbled on was the first time in the game that Atlanta crossed the 50...that was in the 3rd quarter.
We were in real danger if Atlanta recovered 2 onside kicks.
This post was edited on 12/28/17 at 9:31 pm
Posted on 12/29/17 at 9:18 am to Champagne
I'm still waiting for a coherent response from our resident Falcons fans.
I guess that would be beyond their capability.
I guess that would be beyond their capability.
Posted on 12/29/17 at 9:36 am to Champagne
quote:
I'm still waiting for a coherent response from our resident Falcons fans.
I guess that would be beyond their capability.
I'll bite....A big play that is not being talked much about that would have made a difference, at least in the possibility of 3 points.
Julio was about to make a sideline catch that would have been a first down at around the Saints 35 yard line...
Instead Lattimore interfered with Julio because he knew he had been beat. The back judge threw the flag and Lattimore didn't protest because he knew it was a legit call...
However, after a meeting they decided to pick up the flag and the drive resulted in no points.
Little moments that if they go different could change every situation from that point forward. (Game of inches and moments)
Not saying that cost them the game, but it was a big moment that is not getting discussed.
Even the Fox crew was "stunned" as they said that that flag was picked up.
That's the breaks in the NFL I guess..play through the bad calls and try and rise above. I mean RISE UP!!
This post was edited on 12/29/17 at 9:58 am
Posted on 12/29/17 at 9:42 am to LATECHgradLSUfan
quote:
try and rise above
Falcons rise up!
Posted on 12/29/17 at 9:42 am to LATECHgradLSUfan
I think I remember that play. It looked like Julio tripped and fell on his own.
Did Julio fall down? If not then you're talking about a different play.
I note that many of the Falcons fans complaints about the officiating focus on "No Calls", i.e. perceived PI, holding and the like that the Fan thinks he observed but the Ref did not observe and so no Penalty call.
No Calls are a very tough and subjective area, especially for Holding and Pass Interference. I won't go into the subjectivity of identifying Offensive PI and Defensive PI and Holding. Leave that for another thread. What I do want to emphasize is the folly of a fan concluding, "Did you see that Pass Interference? Why wasn't that called? This game is rigged and Pete Morelli should be fired."
PS I'll go back and look at the play if I'm thinking about the wrong one if you could tell which Quarter it was.
Did Julio fall down? If not then you're talking about a different play.
I note that many of the Falcons fans complaints about the officiating focus on "No Calls", i.e. perceived PI, holding and the like that the Fan thinks he observed but the Ref did not observe and so no Penalty call.
No Calls are a very tough and subjective area, especially for Holding and Pass Interference. I won't go into the subjectivity of identifying Offensive PI and Defensive PI and Holding. Leave that for another thread. What I do want to emphasize is the folly of a fan concluding, "Did you see that Pass Interference? Why wasn't that called? This game is rigged and Pete Morelli should be fired."
PS I'll go back and look at the play if I'm thinking about the wrong one if you could tell which Quarter it was.
This post was edited on 12/29/17 at 9:47 am
Posted on 12/29/17 at 9:58 am to liquid rabbit
quote:
Falcons rise up!
You are right fixed!
Posted on 12/29/17 at 10:01 am to Champagne
quote:
PS I'll go back and look at the play if I'm thinking about the wrong one if you could tell which Quarter it was.
Early Third i believe completely from memory...he put his hands on him and he did fall...it was on the Saints sideline i believe.
again 100% from memory...it was something that bothered me as the game went on.
Posted on 12/29/17 at 10:08 am to LATECHgradLSUfan
This is it i believe....It says C. Jordan on coverage but I could have sworn is was Lattimore...
Happened on the first play of the drive...shows incomplete pass on the stat sheet but doesn't tell the story if the flag wouldn't have been picked and the complexion of this drive.
PUNT
5 PLAYS, 17 YARDS, 2:51
ATL
3
NO
13
1st and 10 at ATL 21
(7:44 - 3rd) M.Ryan pass incomplete deep right to Ju.Jones [C.Jordan].
2nd and 10 at ATL 21
(7:38 - 3rd) T.Coleman left tackle to ATL 36 for 15 yards (M.Williams; M.Lattimore).
1st and 10 at ATL 36
(7:04 - 3rd) T.Coleman right guard to ATL 36 for no gain (C.Robertson).
2nd and 10 at ATL 36
(6:24 - 3rd) (Shotgun) M.Ryan pass short left to M.Sanu to ATL 43 for 7 yards (M.Lattimore). Pass 7, YAC 0
3rd and 3 at ATL 43
(5:40 - 3rd) (Shotgun) M.Ryan sacked at ATL 38 for -5 yards (C.Jordan).
4th and 8 at ATL 38
(5:03 - 3rd) M.Bosher punts 39 yards to NO 23, Center-J.Harris. T.Lewis pushed ob at NO 31 for 8 yards (D.Coleman). PENALTY on ATL-D.Coleman, Unnecessary Roughness, 15 yards, enforced at NO 31.
Happened on the first play of the drive...shows incomplete pass on the stat sheet but doesn't tell the story if the flag wouldn't have been picked and the complexion of this drive.
PUNT
5 PLAYS, 17 YARDS, 2:51
ATL
3
NO
13
1st and 10 at ATL 21
(7:44 - 3rd) M.Ryan pass incomplete deep right to Ju.Jones [C.Jordan].
2nd and 10 at ATL 21
(7:38 - 3rd) T.Coleman left tackle to ATL 36 for 15 yards (M.Williams; M.Lattimore).
1st and 10 at ATL 36
(7:04 - 3rd) T.Coleman right guard to ATL 36 for no gain (C.Robertson).
2nd and 10 at ATL 36
(6:24 - 3rd) (Shotgun) M.Ryan pass short left to M.Sanu to ATL 43 for 7 yards (M.Lattimore). Pass 7, YAC 0
3rd and 3 at ATL 43
(5:40 - 3rd) (Shotgun) M.Ryan sacked at ATL 38 for -5 yards (C.Jordan).
4th and 8 at ATL 38
(5:03 - 3rd) M.Bosher punts 39 yards to NO 23, Center-J.Harris. T.Lewis pushed ob at NO 31 for 8 yards (D.Coleman). PENALTY on ATL-D.Coleman, Unnecessary Roughness, 15 yards, enforced at NO 31.
This post was edited on 12/29/17 at 10:11 am
Posted on 12/29/17 at 10:37 am to LATECHgradLSUfan
Look, I watched that play carefully more than once. Julio was not tripped and Julio did not get his feet tangled with the defender. Julio fell and it looks like he tripped and fell on his own. On his own.
Now, sure, there was hand touching on both Receiver and Defender but this happens every play. Julio will touch the Defender anytime the Defender is in arm's length. There is LOTS of touching and hand fighting in this part of the game these days so the Refs have to be careful about calling PI every time they see a hand touch or a fall-down. Why? Because too many penalties slow the game down, AND there is no more game-changing penalty than PI.
Again, complaining about a "No Call" is tough because of the subjectivity involved AND the desire of the Refs to "let the players play the game".
PI is a very damaging and game-changing penalty. As such, some Ref crews may stay conservative when call it, especially with a player like Julio who does use lots of little shoves and hand fighting to get himself open.
Would you rather Julio get called for Offensive PI every time he uses a little bump or hand-contact to get himself open? Probably not.
Looks to me like Julio fell on his own on the play. No other human being touched his foot to trip him, and, he certainly was not "pushed down" by the Defender.
I have to say, speaking for myself personally, I like it when fewer PI penalties are called because I like the idea of making the Receiver establish some separation with a Defender before the QB deems the Receiver to be "open".
I like the idea of the Offense being required to establish a clear separation of the Receiver from the Defender, rather than throwing the ball into coverage and HOPING for a PI call against the Defense.
PS I do believe as you do that it was 3rd Quarter.
Now, sure, there was hand touching on both Receiver and Defender but this happens every play. Julio will touch the Defender anytime the Defender is in arm's length. There is LOTS of touching and hand fighting in this part of the game these days so the Refs have to be careful about calling PI every time they see a hand touch or a fall-down. Why? Because too many penalties slow the game down, AND there is no more game-changing penalty than PI.
Again, complaining about a "No Call" is tough because of the subjectivity involved AND the desire of the Refs to "let the players play the game".
PI is a very damaging and game-changing penalty. As such, some Ref crews may stay conservative when call it, especially with a player like Julio who does use lots of little shoves and hand fighting to get himself open.
Would you rather Julio get called for Offensive PI every time he uses a little bump or hand-contact to get himself open? Probably not.
Looks to me like Julio fell on his own on the play. No other human being touched his foot to trip him, and, he certainly was not "pushed down" by the Defender.
I have to say, speaking for myself personally, I like it when fewer PI penalties are called because I like the idea of making the Receiver establish some separation with a Defender before the QB deems the Receiver to be "open".
I like the idea of the Offense being required to establish a clear separation of the Receiver from the Defender, rather than throwing the ball into coverage and HOPING for a PI call against the Defense.
PS I do believe as you do that it was 3rd Quarter.
This post was edited on 12/29/17 at 10:42 am
Posted on 12/29/17 at 11:36 am to LATECHgradLSUfan
Case closed?
Posted on 12/29/17 at 11:47 am to Champagne
quote:
Case closed?
More like agree to disagree...
I agree that PI in the NFL being a spot foul is very game changing...i also believe that he would have caught that ball had Lattimore not been there.
anyway again not the reason they lost..just bothersome to see how the game may have changed.
I am hoping the Falcons get round three against the saints this postseason.
This post was edited on 12/29/17 at 11:48 am
Posted on 12/29/17 at 11:55 am to LATECHgradLSUfan
quote:
i also believe that he would have caught that ball had Lattimore not been there.
That's not the Defensive PI rule at all.
You disagree that Julio was not tripped by the Defender? You can't. I have the play recorded on slow motion and there is no trip.
You'll have to argue that Julio was pushed down by the Defender's hands. That's not convincing for a couple of reasons. One, there is no push. Two, there is hand contact but, it is just as likely that Julio "took a flop" as it is to conclude that a smaller Defender pushed down an athlete like Julio with hand-contact alone.
I don't know how you can be so sure that you saw PI. Of course, you were HOPING for PI and I understand that.
I'm glad that the Ref didn't fall for the possible "flop". This isn't the NBA and Julio is not LeBron.
Please note that there was no similar situation with a Saint Receiver in which Defensive PI WAS called, so, you have no example at all to demonstrate any inconsistency in how the game was called. IMHO, this weakens further your argument that it was clear Defensive PI.
This post was edited on 12/29/17 at 12:24 pm
Posted on 12/29/17 at 11:55 am to LATECHgradLSUfan
The play Julio tripped, IIRC Julio initiated the contact and Lattimore chopped his arms to break free. That slight imbalance more than likely caused him to trip while he's running in stride
Posted on 12/29/17 at 12:00 pm to htran90
quote:
That slight imbalance more than likely caused him to trip while he's running in stride
If the contact is purely with hands and no feet, isn't it a "push" instead of a "trip"? If I push you down, do you think of my foot? If I trip you and you fall, do you first visualize my hand?
The hand-contact was neither a push nor was it a trip. Julio may well have intentionally flopped. I find it unlikely that a smaller Defender's light hand contact would cause a World Class Athlete like Julio to "trip" and fall to the ground.
I agree with the Ref's "No Call" because this is pro football, not pro basketball. We are calling PI, not an NBA Foul.
Posted on 12/29/17 at 1:03 pm to DoubleDown
quote:
We overcame those bad calls last year.
What bad calls?
We've already addressed two calls that Falcons fans say were "bad" and we have shown that they were not bad calls. Both calls involved Julio Jones. Julio can't have all of the calls, you know. He needs to win on his own without help from the Refs.
Posted on 12/29/17 at 1:05 pm to Champagne
Does anyone have video of the play?
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