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Dallas Texans could have been the Saints instead of the Chiefs...
Posted on 1/21/20 at 10:23 am
Posted on 1/21/20 at 10:23 am
A few years ago, I read the book The Saints, the Superdome and the Scandal by Dave Dixon (a local businessman and founder of the USFL who was instrumental in the city obtaining the Saints and the Superdome being built).
One part of the book really stood out to me, though, as a what if? kind of scenario. In 1963, Mr. Dixon posits that New Orleans had a very strong shot of acquiring the Dallas Texans AFL franchise-- in fact; he states that had he not made certain mistakes, Lamar Hunt would have almost certainly moved the team here. As some of you may know, for the first three years of that team's existence, they shared the Dallas market with the Cowboys of the NFL. After the 1962 season, Hunt began looking elsewhere, eventually settling on Kansas City, where his franchise became the Chiefs that we know today.
Dixon states that following the 1962 season, Lamar Hunt's manager came to New Orleans to work with Dixon and arrange a deal to play at Tulane University. This is borne out not only in Dixon's book (pp.53-57. The Lamar Hunt Opportunity) but also is referred to in Jeff Miller's history of the AFL, Going Long, by first-hand testimony of both Dixon and Lamar Hunt (pp. 72-73)
However, as Dixon relates, Hunt was so concerned about secrecy and security that he asked Dixon to tell the Tulane University committee that the request for stadium availability was for any AFL franchise. The Tulane board, which was holding out hope for an NFL expansion franchise and was not about to commit to the possibility of an expansion team in the upstart AFL, never formally reacted to Hunt's request. Dixon states that in looking back, he realizes he should have used his powers of persuasion to convince the Tulane board to make a commitment to the AFL, subject to their approval of an individual team owner. In that way, the Tulane committee could have been protected, Hunt's secrecy wouldn't have been blown, and the Texans would have become the New Orleans Saints in the 1963 season.
How would these 1963 Saints have looked? Well, from looking at how easily the Texans transformed into the Chiefs (basically just changing the helmet logo), probably pretty easily. They would have looked a lot like this:
One part of the book really stood out to me, though, as a what if? kind of scenario. In 1963, Mr. Dixon posits that New Orleans had a very strong shot of acquiring the Dallas Texans AFL franchise-- in fact; he states that had he not made certain mistakes, Lamar Hunt would have almost certainly moved the team here. As some of you may know, for the first three years of that team's existence, they shared the Dallas market with the Cowboys of the NFL. After the 1962 season, Hunt began looking elsewhere, eventually settling on Kansas City, where his franchise became the Chiefs that we know today.
Dixon states that following the 1962 season, Lamar Hunt's manager came to New Orleans to work with Dixon and arrange a deal to play at Tulane University. This is borne out not only in Dixon's book (pp.53-57. The Lamar Hunt Opportunity) but also is referred to in Jeff Miller's history of the AFL, Going Long, by first-hand testimony of both Dixon and Lamar Hunt (pp. 72-73)
However, as Dixon relates, Hunt was so concerned about secrecy and security that he asked Dixon to tell the Tulane University committee that the request for stadium availability was for any AFL franchise. The Tulane board, which was holding out hope for an NFL expansion franchise and was not about to commit to the possibility of an expansion team in the upstart AFL, never formally reacted to Hunt's request. Dixon states that in looking back, he realizes he should have used his powers of persuasion to convince the Tulane board to make a commitment to the AFL, subject to their approval of an individual team owner. In that way, the Tulane committee could have been protected, Hunt's secrecy wouldn't have been blown, and the Texans would have become the New Orleans Saints in the 1963 season.
How would these 1963 Saints have looked? Well, from looking at how easily the Texans transformed into the Chiefs (basically just changing the helmet logo), probably pretty easily. They would have looked a lot like this:
6
Posted on 1/21/20 at 10:36 am to BRich
So we'd have Mahomes?
Posted on 1/21/20 at 10:39 am to BRich
The team wouldn’t have been called “Saints.” The moniker is adopted from the awarding of the franchise to the city of New Orleans on All Saints’ Day.
Another fun fact: the colors of black and gold were chosen due to the original owner’s (John Mecom) ties to the oil industry. (oil = black gold)
Another fun fact: the colors of black and gold were chosen due to the original owner’s (John Mecom) ties to the oil industry. (oil = black gold)
Posted on 1/21/20 at 11:19 am to BRich
quote:
In 1962, it appeared as though the Oakland Raiders were seeking greener pastures. Then-owner F. Wayne Valley’s team had just endured a 1-13 mark, playing in old Frank Youell Field where the Raiders averaged just 10,984 fans per home game.
“We were skiing in Austria,” recalls Dixon’s son Frank about a family vacation in his pre-teen days. “Dad received a phone call. The caller tells him that the Oakland Raiders are for sale. They had just finished 1-13 and weren’t drawing. He flew back to Oakland and, with a handshake agreement, accepted an offer to purchase the team for $236,000. Dad had a group of 8-9 guys who would pool their money and sign the paperwork.”
The Silver and Black was void of marquee stars but had prominent players like future Hall of Fame center Jim Otto, running back Clem Daniels and former LSU quarterback M.C. Reynolds. Despite a down 1962 campaign, the Raiders would play in the World Championship II (later named the Super Bowl) five seasons later in January 1968. Oakland eventually captured wins in three Super Bowls (XI, XV and XVIII).
“The mayor of Oakland got wind of what was going on and convinced F. Wayne Valley to sell to a local group,” Dixon recalled. Valley gave in to the mayor’s request, keeping the team on the west coast and hired a 33-year old by the name of Al Davis to serve as the team’s head coach and general manager. The rest is pro football history.
LINK
Posted on 1/21/20 at 11:28 am to BRich
Great post mate 
Posted on 1/21/20 at 1:07 pm to BRich
Man that would be terrible having to wear those colors. I can’t imagine a life without black and gold.
Posted on 1/21/20 at 1:22 pm to 3HourTour
I remember seeing on SR.com on a post years ago when this was brought up, that the original plan would have been to change the colors to a dark navy and yellow opposed to keeping the Texans's colors.
A comparable example would have been the Jets throwbacks to their "Titans" uniforms. However, I can't see the team in anything but black and gold. Still, its fun to play what if in this case.
A comparable example would have been the Jets throwbacks to their "Titans" uniforms. However, I can't see the team in anything but black and gold. Still, its fun to play what if in this case.
Posted on 1/21/20 at 1:38 pm to 3HourTour
quote:I remember when Benson bought the team, he was considering changing the colors to light blue and gold (ala UCLA). Glad that never happened.
Man that would be terrible having to wear those colors. I can’t imagine a life without black and gold.
Posted on 1/21/20 at 4:28 pm to Deplorable Duke
quote:
The team wouldn’t have been called “Saints.” The moniker is adopted from the awarding of the franchise to the city of New Orleans on All Saints’ Day.
A neat coincidence, but that is not why the team was named the Saints.
Dave Dixon had been pushing for the name "Saints" since as early as the 1962 pre-season, when he had this letter put in the program for a pre-season AFL exhibition game that was held at Tad Gormley:
After the franchise was awarded, the States-Item even held a sham promotional "Name the Team' contest. But with Dixon's involvement, it was pretty much a fait accompli that the team would be named the Saints:
This post was edited on 1/21/20 at 4:29 pm
Posted on 1/21/20 at 4:34 pm to Deplorable Duke
We probably would have just been the baby cakes if this would have happened
Posted on 1/21/20 at 4:45 pm to BRich
Another interesting thing to think about is how this simple innocuous change would affect later events in at least two other pro sports, how via "the butterfly effect" things would be different. This is my take on how things would have progressed based upon other things going on in history:
1963- Dallas Texans move to New Orleans, become New Orleans Saints.
1964 - Charlie Finley, owner of the Kansas City Athletics baseball team, requests to relocate his team first to Louisville, KY, then to Oakland, CA. As in our world, both requests are denied. However, unlike in our world, as he is "the only game in town" Finley does not agree to a 4-year lease with Kansas City's Municipal Stadium, instead remaining a tenant-at-will.
Houston Astrodome is completed in late November. Talk of a similar domed stadium for New Orleans to house the Saints and a possible MLB team begins in earnest.
1965-- Similar to our world, the AFL's efforts to place a team in Atlanta are thwarted by the NFL, who awards that city a franchise that later becomes the Falcons. The AFL awards a franchise to Miami, later named the Dolphins. Both franchises are to begin play in 1966.
In Kansas City, Mayor Ike Davis enlists his predecessor, H. Roe "The Chief" Bartle, to head up a committee to obtain a pro football franchise for their city. Missouri Senator Stuart Symington is also on board.
In November, Louisiana citizens pass an amendment allowing the creation of a domed Stadium in New Orleans.
1966- Similar to our world, in April 1966, Joe Foss resigns as AFL commissioner and is replaced by Al Davis. Several movers and shakers within both the NFL and AFL meet secretly, hammer out details, and then announce a merger agreement in principle in June of 1966. However, it becomes clear that the new merged league will need a limited anti-trust exemption granted to it by Congress. By the end of baseball season, Charlie Finley announces that he is planning to seek relocation approval to move the A's to New Orleans and their soon-to-be constructed Superdome. Before a vote (which seemed likely to pass) was taken, however, Missouri Senator Stuart Symington threatens legislation to revoke the major leagues' antitrust exemption. Seeing their chance, Rozelle and AFL figures make their move. Meeting with Symington, Louisiana Senator Russell Long and House Majority Leader Hale Boggs of Louisiana (and later involving owners and officials of major league baseball) they convince them to draft a "pro sports limited anti-trust exemption' measure, which places some limits on MLB's anti-trust exemption, but also gives pro football the exact same status. The implicit payoff is that Kansas City will be awarded an expansion football team, Finley will be forced to sell the A's to local (Kansas City) interests, and New Orleans will receive an MLB expansion franchise in the coming years. Within a month of the passage of the measure by Congress, Kansas City is awarded an NFL franchise to begin play in 1967. The owner selected by the merged league is John Mecom, Jr. In a 'name the team' contest, the team is dubbed the Chiefs (mainly to honor the efforts of beloved H. Roe Bartle). The team colors are black and gold, with a nod to the owner's source of wealth (oil) and in a nod to the state university. The uniforms in fact bear a noted resemblance to those of the Missouri Tigers at that time:
1967 - Green Bay Packers defeat the New Orleans Saints in the first AFL-NFL championship game, later to be known formally as the Super Bowl. In the fall, the Kansas City Chiefs begin play, and Kansas City voters approve the funding of a sports complex to house facilities for the Chiefs and the A's.
1968 - Major league baseball announces a four team expansion, with teams beginning play in 1971: San Diego and New Orleans in the National League, Seattle and Oakland in the American League. Cincinnati Bengals begin play in the AFL.
1970 - Super Bowl IV, originally to be held in the new Superdome, has to be held in Tulane Stadium due to construction delays. However, the New Orleans Saints become the first and only NFL team to play in and win a Super Bowl in their home stadium, defeating the Minnesota Vikings.
1971 - Seattle Pilots begin play in a well-renovated Sick's Stadium on a "temporary" basis while the Kingdome is being planned. Oakland Oaks begin play in Oakland-Alameda Stadium, the Padres begin play in San Diego Stadium, and the Superdome is finished just in time (barely) for the season opener of the New Orleans Pelicans.... New Orleans Saints move into the Superdome later that year.
1972 - Superdome hosts its first Super Bowl. Kansas City Chiefs begin playing in Arrowhead Stadium. Cincinnati's NBA franchise relocates to Kansas City-Omaha and becomes the Kansas City-Omaha Royals (later, just the Kansas City Royals).
1973 - Kansas City A's begin play in A's Stadium.
1976 - Seattle Pilots move to their new digs in the Kingdome, along with the NFL expansion Seahawks. Baseball awards expansion franchises to Milwaukee and Toronto to begin play the following year.
1987 - Due to stadium issues and lack of attendance due to poor play and a downturn in the local economy, the New Orleans Pelicans are sold and moved to Denver, Colorado.
1963- Dallas Texans move to New Orleans, become New Orleans Saints.
1964 - Charlie Finley, owner of the Kansas City Athletics baseball team, requests to relocate his team first to Louisville, KY, then to Oakland, CA. As in our world, both requests are denied. However, unlike in our world, as he is "the only game in town" Finley does not agree to a 4-year lease with Kansas City's Municipal Stadium, instead remaining a tenant-at-will.
Houston Astrodome is completed in late November. Talk of a similar domed stadium for New Orleans to house the Saints and a possible MLB team begins in earnest.
1965-- Similar to our world, the AFL's efforts to place a team in Atlanta are thwarted by the NFL, who awards that city a franchise that later becomes the Falcons. The AFL awards a franchise to Miami, later named the Dolphins. Both franchises are to begin play in 1966.
In Kansas City, Mayor Ike Davis enlists his predecessor, H. Roe "The Chief" Bartle, to head up a committee to obtain a pro football franchise for their city. Missouri Senator Stuart Symington is also on board.
In November, Louisiana citizens pass an amendment allowing the creation of a domed Stadium in New Orleans.
1966- Similar to our world, in April 1966, Joe Foss resigns as AFL commissioner and is replaced by Al Davis. Several movers and shakers within both the NFL and AFL meet secretly, hammer out details, and then announce a merger agreement in principle in June of 1966. However, it becomes clear that the new merged league will need a limited anti-trust exemption granted to it by Congress. By the end of baseball season, Charlie Finley announces that he is planning to seek relocation approval to move the A's to New Orleans and their soon-to-be constructed Superdome. Before a vote (which seemed likely to pass) was taken, however, Missouri Senator Stuart Symington threatens legislation to revoke the major leagues' antitrust exemption. Seeing their chance, Rozelle and AFL figures make their move. Meeting with Symington, Louisiana Senator Russell Long and House Majority Leader Hale Boggs of Louisiana (and later involving owners and officials of major league baseball) they convince them to draft a "pro sports limited anti-trust exemption' measure, which places some limits on MLB's anti-trust exemption, but also gives pro football the exact same status. The implicit payoff is that Kansas City will be awarded an expansion football team, Finley will be forced to sell the A's to local (Kansas City) interests, and New Orleans will receive an MLB expansion franchise in the coming years. Within a month of the passage of the measure by Congress, Kansas City is awarded an NFL franchise to begin play in 1967. The owner selected by the merged league is John Mecom, Jr. In a 'name the team' contest, the team is dubbed the Chiefs (mainly to honor the efforts of beloved H. Roe Bartle). The team colors are black and gold, with a nod to the owner's source of wealth (oil) and in a nod to the state university. The uniforms in fact bear a noted resemblance to those of the Missouri Tigers at that time:
1967 - Green Bay Packers defeat the New Orleans Saints in the first AFL-NFL championship game, later to be known formally as the Super Bowl. In the fall, the Kansas City Chiefs begin play, and Kansas City voters approve the funding of a sports complex to house facilities for the Chiefs and the A's.
1968 - Major league baseball announces a four team expansion, with teams beginning play in 1971: San Diego and New Orleans in the National League, Seattle and Oakland in the American League. Cincinnati Bengals begin play in the AFL.
1970 - Super Bowl IV, originally to be held in the new Superdome, has to be held in Tulane Stadium due to construction delays. However, the New Orleans Saints become the first and only NFL team to play in and win a Super Bowl in their home stadium, defeating the Minnesota Vikings.
1971 - Seattle Pilots begin play in a well-renovated Sick's Stadium on a "temporary" basis while the Kingdome is being planned. Oakland Oaks begin play in Oakland-Alameda Stadium, the Padres begin play in San Diego Stadium, and the Superdome is finished just in time (barely) for the season opener of the New Orleans Pelicans.... New Orleans Saints move into the Superdome later that year.
1972 - Superdome hosts its first Super Bowl. Kansas City Chiefs begin playing in Arrowhead Stadium. Cincinnati's NBA franchise relocates to Kansas City-Omaha and becomes the Kansas City-Omaha Royals (later, just the Kansas City Royals).
1973 - Kansas City A's begin play in A's Stadium.
1976 - Seattle Pilots move to their new digs in the Kingdome, along with the NFL expansion Seahawks. Baseball awards expansion franchises to Milwaukee and Toronto to begin play the following year.
1987 - Due to stadium issues and lack of attendance due to poor play and a downturn in the local economy, the New Orleans Pelicans are sold and moved to Denver, Colorado.
This post was edited on 1/21/20 at 4:58 pm
Posted on 1/21/20 at 5:52 pm to BRich
That is definitely a butterfly effect in your scenario. But I would say that if we got a baseball team and basketball team during that time, there’s no way we lose them both. Do agree there would be issues with the economy in the 80s, but I can’t see MLB giving up New Orleans if it had roots that far back.
Posted on 1/21/20 at 6:13 pm to BRich
Lofty post, mate 
Posted on 1/21/20 at 6:30 pm to BRich
Honestly dont see NOLA getting an MLB team outside of the Disney World in St Tammany Parish timeline. There'd probably be 4 pro teams in the region then, with a particularly fierce NBA rivarly between the New Orleans Jazz and the Mandeville Magic.
Posted on 1/22/20 at 7:47 am to Deplorable Duke
interesting. I always thought the black and gold stood for all the Afro Americans with gold teeth in our city.
Posted on 1/22/20 at 6:55 pm to saintbachhous
The name Saints was chosen well before we were awarded the franchise. As a matter of fact, Dixon and his crew were distributing pencils with New Orleans Saints engraved on them during an exhibition game at Tulane Stadium between the Colts and Lions in the early 60's. Fans were asked to fill out a questionnaire and the pencils were complimentary. The name comes from "When the Saints Go Marching In."
The colors were derived from a photo shoot that the Saints organized. Dixon originally considered purple, green, and gold but he didn't think they were an attractive combination when he saw the film. They settled on black and gold because the colors looked good on film and they wanted something similar to the black and silver of the Oakland Raiders.
The colors were derived from a photo shoot that the Saints organized. Dixon originally considered purple, green, and gold but he didn't think they were an attractive combination when he saw the film. They settled on black and gold because the colors looked good on film and they wanted something similar to the black and silver of the Oakland Raiders.
Posted on 1/22/20 at 10:24 pm to Deplorable Duke
quote:
Another fun fact: the colors of black and gold were chosen due to the original owner’s (John Mecom) ties to the oil industry. (oil = black gold)
When Mr. Benson bought the team in 1985, he floated the idea of changing the colors to blue and gold, but received so much fan backlash, he quickly dropped the idea.
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