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re: Zach Lowe discusses the Pelicans draft night at length
Posted on 6/27/25 at 9:56 am to Townedrunkard
Posted on 6/27/25 at 9:56 am to Townedrunkard
quote:
Yeah Ill stop.
I got you pal.
For BI + 1st we essentially got Derik Queen/ Saddiq Bey/ Micah Peavy for under $15mil a year.
If Derik Queen is a good player and Bey hits his stride then this is a pretty successful trade. That's not including Micah Peavy at all. The actual impact those guys could have compared to their cost at $15 mil combined vs BI at $40mil is wild if successful.
Murray for Dyson and (2) 1st sucks in hindsight but it was still understandable at the time. No one expected Murray to tear his achilles, you can't use that to make the trade itself look like a bad move.
Murray still averaged 17.5pts/ 6.5reb/ 7.4ast per game in the 31 he played. He is still a really good player. We rehab his value and he either becomes a valuable piece for us or a trade asset worth (2) 1st and +32mil to take back for another star.
We have set ourselves up with real player potential that can make or break this team instead of future assets that almost never work out and keep us going in circles.
I'm not saying you don't have to be upset but atleast have enough optimism to give our new guys a chance before calling it a failure.
1
Posted on 6/27/25 at 9:58 am to higgsBoson
quote:
I think Griffin thought it was fun winning the lottery too. Pelicans fans don’t understand the NBA draft. It’s random. You have to increase your odds of getting a generational talent there or you’re never going to succeed. If you throw away one of your better chances, you’re basically giving yourself no shot.
Also I believe we’re going to be a bad team next year.
With the lottery smoothing odds, what exactly did we piss away? We were the 4th worst team in the NBA and wound up with the #7 overall pick. I believe we will be bad next year...but not 4th worst team in the NBA kind of bad.
I don't endorse passing on a guy you love (Queen) because maybe the ping pong balls bounce your way. Scared money don't make money.
Posted on 6/27/25 at 10:05 am to higgsBoson
quote:
Everyone’s saying next years class is better than this one
Everyone says that every year.
Posted on 6/27/25 at 10:16 am to VOR
quote:
Funny, the more people that weigh in to say the trade was dumb, the more I believe it will turn out okay. By that I mean we have a 6’10” athletic guy who helps us down low… and maybe can hit a 3 at a decent rate… what I don’t know is who will be available with the future pick we traded…
The big knock on Queen is that he’s unathletic and can’t stay in shape. This is my biggest issue with the pick. I just don’t see star potential and I don’t see any way he fits with Zion.
Posted on 6/27/25 at 10:18 am to AOC4PREZ2028
quote:
With the lottery smoothing odds, what exactly did we piss away? We were the 4th worst team in the NBA and wound up with the #7 overall pick. I believe we will be bad next year...but not 4th worst team in the NBA kind of bad. I don't endorse passing on a guy you love (Queen) because maybe the ping pong balls bounce your way. Scared money don't make money.
I totally get that. I guess the disconnect is the player. I don’t think Queen is a top ten player in this or next years draft. And I think we’ll pick top ten.
Posted on 6/27/25 at 10:20 am to higgsBoson
quote:
The big knock on Queen is that he’s unathletic and can’t stay in shape. This is my biggest issue with the pick. I just don’t see star potential and I don’t see any way he fits with Zion.
People claiming he doesn't "fit" with Zion don't understand Zion. Zion isn't a 4. Zion is a 2. He's just got the body of a 4. He's a giant-sized Dwanye Wade. He's not a power forward with his back to the basket. He's a slasher who gets to the cup.
His fit with Zion will be just fine. Queen is 19. He's not a finished product.
Posted on 6/27/25 at 10:25 am to AOC4PREZ2028
quote:
People claiming he doesn't "fit" with Zion don't understand Zion. Zion isn't a 4. Zion is a 2. He's just got the body of a 4. He's a giant-sized Dwanye Wade. He's not a power forward with his back to the basket. He's a slasher who gets to the cup. His fit with Zion will be just fine. Queen is 19. He's not a finished product.
You have to think about defensive and offensive positions. Queen doesn’t play defense. On offense Zion is a 2/3 and on defense he’s a 4. Defensively that tandom at 4/5 Zion/Queen is unplayable.
Then you have to think about percentage of possessions for offense. When we’re running point Zion then maybe him and Queen can have some actions together. But what happens when you want Poole or Murray or Fears to be the lead guard? Then you have Zion and Queen playing off ball which they both are negative players off ball.
So maybe 30-40% of possessions (generous) they work on offense and 0% on defense. So I’d say they don’t work together.
Posted on 6/27/25 at 10:30 am to AOC4PREZ2028
quote:
Dumars is being clowned because the talking heads need "winners" and "losers" to talk about and drive clicks, etc. I admit that my initial reaction was similar. But the thinking behind it makes sense, especially knowing that all those teams turned down the dea
He’s being clowned because giving that unprotected pick is a move a playoff team makes because you’re confident you'll make the playoffs and the difference in picks will be minimal. Even if we have ideal health next year, I don’t think this is a playoff team in the west. It’s a big bet to make on a team that was awful last year and still is an oddly built roster.
If Queen is who they seem to believe he is, it won’t matter but again, big bet to make
Posted on 6/27/25 at 10:33 am to higgsBoson
quote:
You have to think about defensive and offensive positions. Queen doesn’t play defense. On offense Zion is a 2/3 and on defense he’s a 4. Defensively that tandom at 4/5 Zion/Queen is unplayable.
The first thing said when Dumars was hired "you have to trade Zion". And then we draft Queen.
I think this is less about fit and more about getting the best players on the team. It just may be that Queen is closer to replacing Zion than fitting with Zion. And I am very happy if that's the case because it means we may actually be going for the best talent instead of trying to find "fits" for a player that has taken us nowhere.
Best case scenario is that they both play so well that "fit" doesn't matter. We are trying something new, that matters way more than finding another "fit" for Zion since that's gone so well.
This post was edited on 6/27/25 at 10:50 am
Posted on 6/27/25 at 10:41 am to BilJ
quote:
He’s being clowned because giving that unprotected pick is a move a playoff team makes because you’re confident you'll make the playoffs and the difference in picks will be minimal. Even if we have ideal health next year, I don’t think this is a playoff team in the west. It’s a big bet to make on a team that was awful last year and still is an oddly built roster.
The trade certainly merits criticism. But the hyperbole is 100% about generating clicks.
Posted on 6/27/25 at 10:43 am to higgsBoson
quote:
You have to think about defensive and offensive positions. Queen doesn’t play defense. On offense Zion is a 2/3 and on defense he’s a 4. Defensively that tandom at 4/5 Zion/Queen is unplayable.
Then you have to think about percentage of possessions for offense. When we’re running point Zion then maybe him and Queen can have some actions together. But what happens when you want Poole or Murray or Fears to be the lead guard? Then you have Zion and Queen playing off ball which they both are negative players off ball.
So maybe 30-40% of possessions (generous) they work on offense and 0% on defense. So I’d say they don’t work together.
You could make this argument about anyone playing alongside Zion. Unless that guy is a catch-and-shoot specialist.
Posted on 6/27/25 at 10:45 am to Dantheman504
quote:
The first thing said when Dumars was hired "you have to trade Zion". And then we draft Queen. I think this is less about fit and more about getting the best players on the team. It just may be that Queen is closer to replacing Zion than fitting with Zion. And I am very happy if that's the case because it means we may actually be going for the best talent instead of trying to find "fits" for a player that has taken us nowhere. Best case scenario is that they both play so well that "fit" doesn't matter. We are trying something new , that matters way more than finding another "fit" for Zion since that's gone so well.
This argument actually makes sense. The argument that he fits with Zion doesn’t. That’s all I’m saying.
I’m all for trading Zion and Herb and maybe Trey and going full rebuild. But that doesn’t make much sense with the win now give up a future pick mindset. If we trade Zion we’re definitely a bottom 5-10 team. So then you keep him one more year and then trade him. Sure… But I just disagree that Queen is a guy to build around.
Posted on 6/27/25 at 10:52 am to Dantheman504
quote:
If Derik Queen is a good player and Bey hits his stride then this is a pretty successful trade
That’s alot of ifs. We essentially gave away the top asset from both the AD trade and Jrue trade in one swoop, and have to hope a mid first round pick works out to have anything to show from losing a HoF player in his prime and a former all star with multiple rings in his prime.
This post was edited on 6/27/25 at 11:03 am
Posted on 6/27/25 at 11:01 am to higgsBoson
quote:
I’m all for trading Zion and Herb and maybe Trey and going full rebuild. But that doesn’t make much sense with the win now give up a future pick mindset.
You keep Trey no matter what.
quote:
If we trade Zion we’re definitely a bottom 5-10 team. So then you keep him one more year and then trade him
We trade him this year not the following year if it happens. That's why it makes sense to give up the 26' 1st. We will most likely attempt to see how it goes this year so if anything happens it will be at the deadline and we will be out of the lottery. With the current roster + whatever we get for Zion we probably won't be a lottery team regardless. Which if we get another young stud + a 26' pick + future pick(s) then it makes not having a pick next year irrelevant and makes more sense to keep 27'.
We could have easily added (2) top rookies knowing the plan is to trade Zion for another top player next year essentially speeding up our "rebuild". Or things actually work out.
We either hit gold on rookies with an already solid roster or we blow it up with a headstart on the rebuild. I like it either way.
This post was edited on 6/27/25 at 11:06 am
Posted on 6/27/25 at 11:11 am to AOC4PREZ2028
In a vacuum there’s certainly some hyperbole buuut it’s also connected to previous head scratchers Dumars made so there’s an element of “here we go again “
Hoping Dumars is right because I’m not sure there will be much fan base left at all if asked to wait on yet another rebuild
Hoping Dumars is right because I’m not sure there will be much fan base left at all if asked to wait on yet another rebuild
Posted on 6/27/25 at 11:23 am to BilJ
quote:
I’m not sure there will be much fan base left at all if asked to wait on yet another rebuild
I disagree. New hope > false hope. The worst thing to do is keep running it back or continue to build on Zion. The only thing that doesn't make sense is the fact that we still have a few holes in order to compete. But its also possible we already made the decision to trade Zion/ Murray and are simply buying time until we rehab both of their value before the deadline. We will know depending on free agency and trades.
If we don't make any more splashes then I fully expect us to be rehabbing Z/ Murray to flip them.
Posted on 6/27/25 at 11:28 am to Dantheman504
I’m saying if Dumars fails and it’s yet another new GM, new build
Posted on 6/27/25 at 11:36 am to BilJ
quote:
I’m saying if Dumars fails and it’s yet another new GM, new build
What would he be failing? This season rides on Zion. We shouldn't even need "fits" next to him if he was putting up 30/10/5 stat line and healthy. That's not Dumars fault. If anything Dumars set us up for a win win. We already sped up our rebuild with Missi/ Fears/ Queen. Now either Zion/ Trey are legit and we are competing with a young roster or you trade Z with an already sped up rebuild.
The whole point of the trade was to get (2) of the best guys this year to either help us compete or speed up the rebuild. The only way its a failure is if they suck.
This is no longer " if FO fails", "if Dumar fails", blah blah blah. Its strictly IF ZION FAILS.
This post was edited on 6/27/25 at 11:40 am
Posted on 6/27/25 at 11:50 am to Dantheman504
quote:man i'm as optimistic as the next guy but that is some convoluted logic. it only "made sense" to trade the 2026 pick if thats what they HAD to do to move up. if dumars didnt start with atlanta an offer including a pick later in the future then yes he is an idiot. i dont think he's an idiot but i also don't think offering the 2026 was some genius strategy on his part. he upped the offer until they said yes
We trade him this year not the following year if it happens. That's why it makes sense to give up the 26' 1st.
Posted on 6/27/25 at 11:54 am to Dantheman504
I think this will be the last straw for Zion. It seems like Zion stayed and didn’t get traded because of the conversations he had with JD. If JD didn’t like those conversations, he would have been gone already.
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