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re: Zach Lowe: Biggest winners and losers of NBA free agency

Posted on 7/13/18 at 1:52 pm to
Posted by The_Duke
Member since Nov 2016
3673 posts
Posted on 7/13/18 at 1:52 pm to
quote:

ou don't want Randle at 23. Yes, he is cheaper then, but he doesn't help you win. Randle at 24-27 can help you win.




Which is why, as a fan, we should all be for players having to stay in school for at least 3 yrs. As a fan I have no desire or benefit of watching my team suck for 3-4 years waiting and hoping for a guy to develop.

I think Minny is in a really bad position--they are being forced to pay young guys max money NOW when they aren't even near ready to perform at that level.

Dells plan makes all the sense in the world to me
This post was edited on 7/13/18 at 1:54 pm
Posted by Epic Cajun
Lafayette, LA
Member since Feb 2013
32445 posts
Posted on 7/13/18 at 2:11 pm to
quote:

Randle is going to have to.practice 3 pt shot to ever get a max deal.

No one is paying great player money for a PF.

His d is not enough to make up for no outside shot at all.
.222 from 3.

I don't know that he's going to play PF, I think he's a center for this roster. There are plenty of defensive minded centers that can't shoot and get paid a decent amount. I don't know that he'll be a max level guy either, though.
Posted by corndeaux
Member since Sep 2009
9634 posts
Posted on 7/14/18 at 8:39 am to
That's a quite generous read of what they have done with Davis.

It is worthwhile to point out that you can have roster stability and still have "churn" given how you use that roster.

Yes, injuries didn't help. But the bigger issue, to me, was that they miscalculated on Davis's evolution and locked him into a core (it's not about the draft) that never quite made sense as he grew

quote:

I think the Pels will do pretty much everything possible to bring him back. 


Ok. Good. I agree. Randle can still walk because he wants to, like Rondo. There's also Mirotic

I like the roster. I don't have an issue keeping those 2, being capped out, and filling in around the edges.
Posted by brmark70816
Atlanta, GA
Member since Feb 2011
9781 posts
Posted on 7/14/18 at 10:05 am to
It sort of is finally coming together and I really believe it is just luck (and a bit of good timing). We needed a period of success to show Davis that he can be the leader and that he can play the 5. Now we have two dynamic front court guys around him, as opposed to some 7 stiff. That makes a huge difference.

Also, that Holiday contract isn't the franchise killer I thought it would be. He had a great year and is very unique. I can't think of a player like him, that flip flops positions and is a defensive cornerstone.

Those two finding their roles took way too long. But it is a great foundation. Still need wing players. But I'm hoping someone slips to us. They still need young talent. Its just vital to the team construction. Hopefully that becomes the focus now..
Posted by CelticDog
Member since Apr 2015
42867 posts
Posted on 7/14/18 at 10:36 am to
I don't see randle as one of your defensive minded centers.

Avg 0.5 blocks. 0.5 steals.

Yes there have been NBA champ centers his size. They rebounded better. Most a lot better.
Clifford ray 6 9.
Was C for Barry and Wilkes NBA champ.
Unseld 6 7 avg 18 boards year he won nba
COwens 6 9. Avg 13 rebounds career.

This post was edited on 7/14/18 at 10:53 am
Posted by NOSHAU
Member since Feb 2012
11895 posts
Posted on 7/14/18 at 10:58 am to
Tough to compare. You are talking about a completely different era of basketball.
Posted by Epic Cajun
Lafayette, LA
Member since Feb 2013
32445 posts
Posted on 7/14/18 at 12:53 pm to
quote:

Ok. Good. I agree. Randle can still walk because he wants to, like Rondo. There's also Mirotic

By everything possible, I meant dip into cap space. Yes, he can still walk like Rondo, but the Pels were in a position where the most they could offer Rondo was the MLE. They aren’t in that situation with Randle, due to greater cap flexibility next offseason.
Posted by 23hella
STL
Member since Feb 2014
1234 posts
Posted on 7/14/18 at 6:35 pm to
quote:

Can Jrue replicate his postseason success at even an 80-90% clip? Let’s say 23 PPG on 48/38/85 splits.

I’m a big Jrue fan. If he does this, I gotta buy a jersey
This post was edited on 7/14/18 at 6:36 pm
Posted by bugafor6
Member since Feb 2016
4200 posts
Posted on 7/15/18 at 8:23 am to
If we would’ve gave boogie a long term max I would’ve said we were big losers in free agency. At least these one year deals give us flexibility
Posted by corndeaux
Member since Sep 2009
9634 posts
Posted on 7/15/18 at 9:17 am to
I understand they have the ability to clear space to make Randle a stronger offer.


Put all of that aside. Again, what's the plan? What is the framework they are working from to build a team? He walks, he stays, whatever. There must be an idea of what needs to be around Davis. They can survive players moving on if they have a deep understanding of how to maximize Davis's talents

And maybe they have the one they always wanted, if Davis is committed to being more of a 5. But let's not pretend that they have been thoughtful with their team building..... which is the entire point.
Posted by Epic Cajun
Lafayette, LA
Member since Feb 2013
32445 posts
Posted on 7/15/18 at 9:30 am to
quote:

And maybe they have the one they always wanted, if Davis is committed to being more of a 5. But let's not pretend that they have been thoughtful with their team building..... which is the entire point.

I guess I can just see their thought process with the previous moves, they didn’t work, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they were bad moves at the time (outside of the Asik and Solo signings).

I am captain optimistic though
Posted by corndeaux
Member since Sep 2009
9634 posts
Posted on 7/15/18 at 10:07 am to
Yeah. I thought the Asik trade was a great move....the re-signing :( But the self-inflicted circumstances to trade for him is more where I'm coming from.

And I get the Boogie era was something they had to pursue and then end. But if some of the rumors about Jahlil Okafor or Dwight were true, yikes.

It makes me wonder how much Davis being reportedly resistant to playing the 5 more has handcuffed them. Would be curious to give Demps and some others some truth serum to ask about that

Posted by cgrand
HAMMOND
Member since Oct 2009
38755 posts
Posted on 7/15/18 at 10:14 am to
I feel like the holiday/Evans/gordon/Anderson recipe was good in theory but not kitchen-tested. too many new parts all thrown together with a brand-new coach to stir. Monty leaned on his strengths in player relationships and we owe him a real debt in how he handled Davis, but in the end it all was a failure

that they’ve re booted without alienating Davis I think deserves some praise. Let’s see if we can catch a few breaks now and see what happens/can happen
Posted by Crewz
Member since Jun 2014
5093 posts
Posted on 7/15/18 at 10:30 am to
They always planned on packaging two or more of those guys for a better piece down the line. That wasn't a core they put together to last for 10 years. They added talent at good values (outside of Gordon) and could have had quality assets to move when an opportunity arose. But, of course, they all got injured at terrible times and lost their value.

The way Reno was playing before his injury, at that price tag, was a great trade asset. But.... Gerald Wallace. Gordon was matched with the idea that they could trade him later. But, of course... injuries. Jrue was on a fantastic bargain contract, but of course..... a two year injury.

Dell's plan made sense, but while other GMs got great luck, Dell got terrible luck. Then, he compounded some errors, trying to overcome the bad luck. He is not blameless. But this guys luck has been beyond terrible. If Cousins makes a free throw.... I can go on and on
Posted by Epic Cajun
Lafayette, LA
Member since Feb 2013
32445 posts
Posted on 7/15/18 at 11:56 am to
quote:

But if some of the rumors about Jahlil Okafor or Dwight were true, yikes.


Right, but there were some stupid moves that the Warriors avoided out of luck, too.

I agree with the AD at 5 comment, though. It has hindered this team a bit, but I think they finally landed a 5 that fits next to AD without messing up the style of play that allows AD to be his best.
Posted by corndeaux
Member since Sep 2009
9634 posts
Posted on 7/15/18 at 1:04 pm to
quote:

Dell's plan made sense


The idea in general has merit. Not sure about the execution of Gordon/Evans/Anderson Pels

For example, I don't know how Holiday, Gordon, and Evans all generate great trade value playing together. In that system at that deliberate pace with the way those guys all had success up to that point in their careers

Sidenote- would be fun to take that team and drop this offensive system on them.


Then again, maybe it would have worked- very small sample was excellent.
Posted by irvchilichill1
Lafayette
Member since Jan 2009
720 posts
Posted on 7/15/18 at 3:52 pm to
The Jrue/Gordon/Reke/Anderson/AD combo was a great idea similar to what Houston displayed this past year.

Solid spacing, ability to drive upon closeouts with a center who could operate out the paint in an exceptional manner and better than a Capela ever could.

Team just couldn't stay healthy and Dell didn't consider the small ball movement being somewhat permanent, when resigning Asik and Ajinca.

I saw what Dell was doing, being Morey before Morey put his version together, as evidenced by him signing Gordon and Anderson (former Pels), the team just endured injuries and a mercurial Gordon who did begin to play well in the last 2 years of his contract. And let's not forget what Anderson (girlfriend) and Jrue (wife) had to endure during that final 1 1/2 years.
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