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re: Time for some changes

Posted on 12/29/15 at 12:14 pm to
Posted by novowels
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2008
2408 posts
Posted on 12/29/15 at 12:14 pm to
quote:

And if you can find a way to move Asik, several of the bigs on the target list may be good enough on defense to cover for Ryno and make him a viable long term piece.


I think he's going to demand more money than we need to be paying to a one way player.
Posted by sma19
New Orleans
Member since Dec 2011
335 posts
Posted on 12/29/15 at 1:31 pm to
What about trying to go after a bigger wing player with some ball handling in the mold of Tobias Harris or MKG? Using Ryno to try and facilitate that would give our defense more of a switching ability and some open floor athleticism in the fast break. Both those guys seem to be attainable from their respective teams
Posted by sma19
New Orleans
Member since Dec 2011
335 posts
Posted on 12/29/15 at 1:42 pm to
Thought about the possibility of making a deal with Brooklyn.

Out
Ryno
Gordon or Tyreke
Asik
2nd round picks we just traded for

In
Thad young
Joe Johnson
Rondae Hollis Jefferson

If you send out Reke you have to include a little more salary in the deal from our side

Nets get shooting and some ball handling around Brook and get a backup center but most importantly get some future assets back in their war chest.

We get the black jacked up version of Ryno
ISO Joe
And a young wing stopper
Posted by HickfawJim1
Member since Sep 2013
452 posts
Posted on 12/29/15 at 1:49 pm to
My trade scenario.

Kings receive: Evans & Gordon

Bucks receive: Gay + Denver's 2nd + 6ers' 2017 2nd

Pels receive: Collison, Bellinelli, & Middleton
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
62446 posts
Posted on 12/29/15 at 2:39 pm to
quote:

What about trying to go after a bigger wing player with some ball handling in the mold of Tobias Harris or MKG?


MKG can't shoot and he's available partly because Charlotte is seeing what a difference a 2 way wing like Batum can make. Tobias Harris seemed potentially available around the draft, but now he's become one of the best players on a playoff team. Playoff teams don't trade their best players for anything less than an upgrade.
Posted by htran90
BC
Member since Dec 2012
31854 posts
Posted on 12/29/15 at 3:17 pm to
quote:

Kings receive: Evans & Gordon



100% sure Kings are laughing their arse off and do not want any part of Tyreke again.
Posted by corndeaux
Member since Sep 2009
9634 posts
Posted on 12/31/15 at 8:56 am to
Gordon still has value on this team in this system. He just needs to be the 7th or 8th man playing ~25MPG, not the 33 he currently sees. He will likely never again shoot like he did last year. That's something that got lost a bit this summer- he had never shot higher than 39% in his career from 3. Then he jumped to 45%. 7 years in, that's not normal and likely not sustainable. Yet, even in the 37-39% range, his volume is valuable. It's just that he's not "Eric Gordon" anymore. He's Jodie Meeks now.
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
62446 posts
Posted on 12/31/15 at 10:04 am to
quote:

Gordon still has value on this team in this system.


Even if you could get Gordon and Morrow for the same money, say about $5-$6 million, I'd take Morrow. He's a better 3 point shooter, and his extra size makes him less of a liability when you switch on defense. Gordon does bring some penetration that guys like Morrow and QPon don't, but ideally we'll have Jrue and another creator taking up most of the guard minutes.

There should be other teams that will value what Gordon brings more than we do, teams that aren't 2nd to last in DRtg. I'm not saying Gordon alone is solely responsible for the defense, there's plenty of blame to go around, but one player can make a big difference. Look at the Bucks, they went from Pachulia to Monroe at center and fell all the way from #2 in DRtg last year to rubbing elbows with the Pels at 3rd to last this season.

Pachulia's not that good and Monroe's not that bad, there are lots of other factors involved like losing a versatile veteran like Jared Dudley, but I think it illustrates that we don't necessarily need to turn Gordon and Ryno into Avery Bradley and Serge Ibaka to fix the defense. We just need some competent, smart 2 way players, and maybe add a few guys like Dudley.
Posted by Ancient Astronaut
Member since May 2015
37097 posts
Posted on 12/31/15 at 10:08 am to
Our roster is fine. This is all about coaching.
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
62446 posts
Posted on 12/31/15 at 10:18 am to
quote:

Our roster is fine. This is all about coaching.


It is not fine if the goal is contending. The league is getting smarter about attacking your weakest links. One dimensional guys like Tony Allen that used to be part of the reason you could win playoff games are now being played off the court. The Pels roster is littered with one dimensional players that have gone from helpful to liability in today's NBA.

It is also not fine if they are going to stick with Gentry. To run his system you need smarter and more versatile players. What do you think is more likely to happen, that they eat the last 3 years of Gentry's deal and bring a big money coach like JVG or Thibs in, or they fire Demps and double down on Gentry by bringing in a front office guy from somewhere he's been before, maybe even from the defending champions?
This post was edited on 12/31/15 at 10:20 am
Posted by corndeaux
Member since Sep 2009
9634 posts
Posted on 12/31/15 at 12:08 pm to
That's fair. I think they need a Gordon type player. Certainly you would like better defense, but the shooting is valuable. I think Gordon maybe being unwilling to accept a lesser role is why he should be shopped/not brought back.

quote:

one player can make a big difference


What's the line- it takes 5 guys to make a good defense and one guy to ruin it? Finding guys that can execute the scheme and a player(s) who can hold everyone accountable on defense is a priority. With 2 different staffs and the same problems, this isn't just a coaching issue. Even the few good defenders on the team have struggled off ball for years now. When your best players are either indifferent, poor, or just sloppy on defense, you have a problem that I don't think scheme alone can fix.

Maybe a guy like Thibs or Skiles could make it work, grinding until they get buy in. But if it takes a taskmaster like that to reach 7 year vets and a future MVP, there are some other things going on that just aren't great.
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