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JohnnyKilroy
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Cajun Navy Vice Admiral
Member since Oct 2012
26192 posts
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re: Thunder @ Pels
Fun time at the game all things considered. Place was packed after they let everyone in. Was sooooo ready to explode if we could have hit a couple more shots down the stretch.



We aight sons


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ROUSTER
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
5806 posts

re: Thunder @ Pels
Said on many occasions. It's his inconsistency that drives fans crazy. Some nights he plays up to or above his money. But other nights he plays like a 2and unit guy.
I like Jrue and this team needs him to be one of the best 2 or 3 players every night.


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21
Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
2165 posts

re: Thunder @ Pels
quote:



I'll also add that none of these conversations happen after his good games


My last one absolutely did, But that is because my opinion comes from watching all his performances, not just the good or the bad. The problem is, since coming back from injury, he has as many terrible games as good ones offensively, and as our second scorer by design, that is problematic.

And his defensive numbers are down as well. Most of that has to do with the team, but when you look at combined metrics, his bad regression offensively is cancelling out his defensive contributions and I would argue is likely why when he was gone the team did not really miss a beat when the other guys minus Zion were mostly healthy.

He’s paid fairly right now, but I just continue to see little reason for why he is worth committing to past this season and worry that unless we get perfect health out of Zion and BI the rest of the way, the 8th seed may be just out of our grasp if Jrue can’t find a groove.
This post was edited on 2/13 at 10:02 pm


LilWezyAna
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
BR
Member since Feb 2016
1918 posts

re: Thunder @ Pels
quote:

And his defensive numbers are down as well.

Fair points, but it's hard to trust advanced defensive stats when the team around him sucks at defense. I think his on ball is as good as it's ever been, but he's been bad to average as a help defender, but that comes with the team defense problems. Like I said, i agree with most things you're saying, but I'm not really itching to trade him as much as you were because I didn't think there was a valuable offer out there. Maybe there will be this summer, but he's worthy of being held onto even past the summer if we don't get good offers IMO


Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
2165 posts

re: Thunder @ Pels
I have never wanted to trade him in season to be clear, his value will maximize in the offseason when teams have more flexibility and feel the pressure to make a big splash to get over the hump or start their inevitable rebuild.

But to me I am getting to the point like I did with Ryno, lots of people said if you cant get the offer you want just hold onto him into his final season, but unless you are ready to give him that big contract, your option is basically pray for a sign and trade, let him walk even though you wont have cap space, or get what you can this offseason.

To me you have to get what you can.


ThePistol
LSU Fan
Lafayette, LA
Member since Mar 2007
788 posts

re: Thunder @ Pels
I understand all of your points about how you feel Jrue doesn’t fit the time line. You have made those abundantly clear.

However, most NBA basketball games come down to crunch time. We were out coached and out executed in the final 2-3 minutes. Donovan did a fantastic job of taking Jrue’s defense out of the equation by isolating Lonzo and Zion in a pick and roll. We chose to guard it with lazy switches three times in a row leading to two baskets and two free throws. We did not have a schematic answer on the offensive side.

You have raised some good points for discussion regarding Jrue and his future. Your points just aren’t very valid regarding this particular game. We had multiple open shots (many of which Jrue created) to take control of the game and we missed them. We have to take our loss and get better at turning the ball over and late game execution.



NOLAPELS51
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Illinois
Member since Feb 2020
2 posts

re: Thunder @ Pels
Real good post game interview by Zion, he sounds like a smart kid, and a team player. Wants to help make his team better, works for his teammates. I get the Mahomboy vibes from him.


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Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
2165 posts

re: Thunder @ Pels
quote:

You have raised some good points for discussion regarding Jrue and his future. Your points just aren’t very valid regarding this particular game. We had multiple open shots (many of which Jrue created) to take control of the game and we missed them. We have to take our loss and get better at turning the ball over and late game execution.

You are correct in that it wasn’t just Jrue, but Jrue’s putrid fourth quarter play offensively continues to be a contributing factor in losses like this.

Quick question, do you know how many points our 28 million dollar leader scored in the fourth quarter tonight? And who had the worst net rating in that period?
This post was edited on 2/13 at 10:27 pm


LilWezyAna
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
BR
Member since Feb 2016
1918 posts

re: Thunder @ Pels
Was just looking at that myself. Weird that he didn't even take any shots. He did have 3 assists and 1 turnover. But yea no excuse for that, he's got to be a little more aggressive. To be fair, he did come in during a stretch where pretty much only Zion, Melli, and Redick were attempting shots

Sidenote while talking about aggressiveness- I wish Lonzo would attempt the wide open layups he has in the lane when given the chance. He could still open up his game so much more if he did. He was straight blowing by people in the 4th
This post was edited on 2/13 at 10:34 pm


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ThePistol
LSU Fan
Lafayette, LA
Member since Mar 2007
788 posts

re: Thunder @ Pels
He literally justled us to two straight wins by going off in a fourth quarter and then shutting down the hottest player in the league. Hell, he’s not even a max guy. If he had four turnovers and was 0/5 in the fourth you would have a point. He was somewhat passive tonight but other than the turnover, which he secured the defensive rebound preventing a score on their subsequent possession, I would love to know what losing plays he made. He played the role of facilitator tonight and we simply didn’t make open shots. They did.

Again, you bring up some good points with regards to a future long term deal (which you do take great liberties assuming worst case scenarios) and apply them to current single games. Your narrative doesn’t fit tonight.


Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
2165 posts

re: Thunder @ Pels
quote:

He literally justled us to two straight wins by going off in a fourth quarter and then shutting down the hottest player in the league. Hell, he’s not even a max guy. If he had four turnovers and was 0/5 in the fourth you would have a point. He was somewhat passive tonight but other than the turnover, which he secured the defensive rebound preventing a score on their subsequent possession, I would love to know what losing plays he made. He played the role of facilitator tonight and we simply didn’t make open shots. They did.


Actually Zion and Reddick did make shots. Zion was 50% in the quarter and Reddick 3-6 from three. Melli 1-4, so not great. Problem was we needed more, not foot dribbles at key moments and absent smart aggression on offense. He had one more assist than Lonzo but three less points. There was nothing impressive about his offensive play in the quarter and that was the problem.

Jrue has certainly had worse games, and my point for tonight has been that unless we get better out from him in these types of situations, like down a key contributor, outcomes like this are going to happen against good teams and risk our playoff hopes.

Over the longer arc the numbers are clear on Jrue in the fourth. You can cherry pick games and short stretches, but he has been one of the worst high usage offensive players in the fourth quarter this season on offense. 46.3% TS% speaks to that.
This post was edited on 2/13 at 10:51 pm


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43
TigerinATL
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Feb 2005
52695 posts
 Online 

re: Thunder @ Pels
I hope the team can stay fully healthy for at least 15 straight games so we can see if the reliance on Jrue changes after Zion and Ingram figure out their pecking order in the offense.
This post was edited on 2/13 at 11:37 pm


corndeaux
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Sep 2009
9563 posts

re: Thunder @ Pels
Relying on Holiday for creating offense has always been a shaky proposition. They literally moved him off ball because they don't trust him as a PG.

And that resulted in career high efficiency (eFG/TS) in 17/18,18/19. This year, he's regressed back to his career average, which is mediocre.

They're not paying him to be the #1 option on offense. And it doesn't seem like he really cares to be that guy either.


ThePistol
LSU Fan
Lafayette, LA
Member since Mar 2007
788 posts

re: Thunder @ Pels
And he wasn’t that guy last night. He didn’t even attempt to be. He was fine being a facilitator. There will be a few games like the Indiana one where he has it going and will become the closer but the guys who we are going to rely on to close games offensively are BI and Zion. BI was out and Zion was playing in his tenth game.

Jrue is not being paid a max salary and isn’t a max guy on offense. BI and Zion will have to grow and continue to get better because neither one of them are great closers yet either. Again, NBA games often come down to the last 2-3 minutes. They had a veteran step up and we had no answers for a single play. We will be fine.


TigerinATL
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Feb 2005
52695 posts
 Online 

re: Thunder @ Pels
This is what I don't think the trade Jrue crowd has fully thought through. When Zion and Ingram are each averaging 24+ points per game, we won't need a Bradley Beal as our #3, in fact his talent and salary would be wasted by redundancy. What we'll need is someone that does less on offense and more in other areas, kind of like Jrue does.

What the Pels need to win big games today, especially when Ingram is out with injury, is not the same thing that they are going to need to win big games as soon as next season.
This post was edited on 2/14 at 6:56 am


CelticDog
LSU Fan
Member since Apr 2015
32538 posts

re: Thunder @ Pels
quote:

 get better at turning the ball over

and late game execution.


1. Since jrue plays very hard defense all game maybe he just get tired and that's why by 4th quarter not so good offense.

2.laughed at "get better at turn ball over." Been "good at that" all season, with a couple of notable exceptions.


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ROUSTER
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
5806 posts

re: Thunder @ Pels
Excellent Point ATL. And last night it wasn't just Jrue late. Zion went cold late (might have something to do with getting pulled when he was lighting up OKC early in the 4th).
But, with BI out we needed more out of Jrue and it wasn't there. He doesn't have to be our #1 or #2, but damn well needs to be a solid consistent #3 guy.
At the end though, it was our lack of defense that doomed us. Which is a consistent downfall of Uncle Al's teams.

Hopefully after the break, we get to see our full squad play together for a bit.


Solo
LSU Fan
Member since Aug 2008
7371 posts

re: Thunder @ Pels
Pels are gonna make the playoffs and take a couple of games off the Lakers, not a doubt in my mind.

When BI is back we will have an elite scorer on the court at all times, two guys who can close out games, and Jrue to lock down the opposing teams best player.

MEM/PDX/SA has no chance at the 8 seed. None. Print the shirts.


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Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
2165 posts

re: Thunder @ Pels
I mean I’m not sure who wants a team with two stars as opposed to three. Especially if you can do so and retain depth.

The Pels are one of the few positioned teams to pull it off in a league where most franchises have ran into the wall of only being able to bankroll or fit two stars under the cap system.

And both Zion and Ingram are likely posed to be guys that are going to be load managed and having that 3rd reliable option is not insignificant. Especially when you have the pipeline of draft picks to keep cheap depth and developmental talent going.

I get the sense this team has pumped up marginal players so long that we have conditioned ourselves not to think championship big.



JohnnyKilroy
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Cajun Navy Vice Admiral
Member since Oct 2012
26192 posts
 Online 

re: Thunder @ Pels
I think he's just talking about this season baw


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