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Started By
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re: The Season long Lonzo Shoots Too Many 3s Thread
Posted on 12/2/19 at 12:31 pm to JSRG123
Posted on 12/2/19 at 12:31 pm to JSRG123
quote:
Yes let’s do that. In crunch time, meaning a game within 6 points with 5 mins left, this team shoots 24% from 3
On 2.8 attempts/game. And they are shooting 29% on twos in those same situations on 3.4 attempts/game. So what's the solution, chief?
quote:
Anyone can launch 3’s down 20 every game.
Sweet jesus. It's 2019 and Pels Talk is spouting antediluvian nonsense on 3s. 3s do not make an offense bad or good. There are very good offenses that take a ton of 3s. They are very good offenses that don't. Teams that win a lot shoot a ton of 3s, teams that lose a lot shoot a ton of 3s.
But, you like numbers, so do you have data that says the teams 3pt rate increases when they are down 20?
Here's what I have. They take the same number of 3s (19) per half. 33 of their 38 3s per game are either OPEN or WIDE OPEN according to NBA.com stats. They hit those 3s at great rates. Those seem like good shots and good design.
So why does the crunch time offense suck? Great question. It's complicated, certainly more so than "too many 3s" "Gentry doesn't coach" "there is no system."
Again, I'll direct you to this post from thebirdwrites that takes a good look at the offense.
3
Posted on 12/2/19 at 1:16 pm to corndeaux
Do you realize that we don't have good 3 point shooters? We have one elite 3 point shooter and the rest are average. Lonzo his shooting 35% this year. That is average, meaning he misses 65% of his threes. Same with Jrue, Kenrich, Melli, Ingram, Hart and Jackson.
Posted on 12/2/19 at 1:28 pm to corndeaux
quote:
So why does the crunch time offense suck?
Most NBA teams don't play good defense until the last 8 minutes of game, and they play harder defense the closer we get to the end of the game.
For whatever reason we become much more iso centric the later it gets in the game, likely b/c we have no offensive sets to rely on.
As I said before, the iso ball isn't what i complain about, it's the lack of trying to create mismatches for the iso ball. You can't expect Jrue or BI to win one on one battles with defensive guys on them and a rim protector not being pulled out of the paint.
We also quit moving the ball later in games. Our offense is at it's best when we are moving the ball and players are moving, but we get into crunch time and all you get is guys sitting around the 3 point line while someone sets a pick for Jrue, which doesn't work well b/c Jrue isnt' aggressive off the pick usually, and then we have 4 guys watching Jrue. There's nothing new about that, as we've seen that the majority of the time the last few years.
Posted on 12/2/19 at 1:43 pm to TeddyPadillac
I saw somebody's tweet asking Redick about struggles in crunch time, and he blamed shot selection and said that they discussed it in meetings today.
Posted on 12/2/19 at 3:31 pm to JSRG123
quote:
Do you realize that we don't have good 3 point shooters?
Uh. The Pelicans are 4th in the league, hitting 38% of their 3s. That is very good for a team.
There are 95 players in the entire league that have played 200 or more minutes, attempted 5 or more 3PA per 36 and hit those shots at 35% or higher. The Pelicans have 7 of those players, most in the league. 4 of those Pelicans players are shooting over 37% from 3.
Maybe it doesn't last, but, so far, they have been an outstanding 3pt shooting team at volume.
quote:
Lonzo his shooting 35% this year. That is average, meaning he misses 65% of his threes
35% is average. That's also better than hitting 52% of your 2pt shots. This is the power of math and the 3pt shot. Even converting at average rates, teams will start to honor players willing to shoot from deep or they will get pummeled.
Again, maybe this dries up. Maybe they've been hot. But they're nailing shots at a very high rate with multiple players contributing. They take a large amount of open 3s. They convert them efficiently.
Does that make their offense in crunch time suck? I have seen nothing to suggest that. You have provided nothing to suggest that taking and making all these 3s is hurting their offense.
Again, I'll point you to the excellent Bird Writes post I shared. LINK
A lot of thoughtful work in there.
Posted on 12/2/19 at 3:37 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
We also quit moving the ball later in games. Our offense is at it's best when we are moving the ball and players are moving
Ball/player movement is the "system" that everyone complains the Pels don't have. If there is one constant for Gentry its that the ball has energy; the team needs to keep the energy up. Gentry is quoted as pointing out stagnation and ISO ball as a problem in crunch time.
So why do they stop doing the one thing Gentry preaches consistently in crunch time? Maybe they're tired. Maybe they don't trust it or each other. Maybe the coaches haven't taught it well enough.
But I seriously doubt Gentry just says "frick it" to his offensive philosophy, like many have suggested, and is happy with players doing nothing.
Again, I'll link to the Bird Writes piece on this issue. LINK
Posted on 12/2/19 at 6:35 pm to Aussie_Pelican
quote:
because the fricken defence allows Zo have open reign
and free reign for draymond green.
2 guys on jj or klay.
This post was edited on 12/2/19 at 6:36 pm
Posted on 12/2/19 at 10:19 pm to Aussie_Pelican
Defence defense ? You gotta be kidding me
Posted on 12/3/19 at 8:36 pm to corndeaux
quote:
corndeaux
First four possessions of the fourth quarter = brick threes. Lol
Posted on 12/3/19 at 9:24 pm to corndeaux
MY GUY! here is a number for you, 11-41 from deep tonight. Lonzo went 2-10 from deep. Keep launching those threes and keep throwing out stats. This team doesn’t have good 3 point shooters
Posted on 12/3/19 at 9:30 pm to JSRG123
We are 4th in the league, so it’s not the threes per se I am upset with..But here’s a thought. What if on those ten shots, instead of chucking flow killing threes early in the shot clock, Lonzo used his possession to attack the paint or move the ball to get one of the several better shooters on the court with him an open look?
Maybe in the process getting some buckets, altering that percentage you posted, helping alllow the team to get back on defense, maybe leading to some additional stops, maybe then leading to some additional positive offensive possessions?
It really is amazing what playing in a team concept and not selfishly for yourself can do for a team when you are the primary guy on the court tasked with facilitating that identity?
Maybe in the process getting some buckets, altering that percentage you posted, helping alllow the team to get back on defense, maybe leading to some additional stops, maybe then leading to some additional positive offensive possessions?
It really is amazing what playing in a team concept and not selfishly for yourself can do for a team when you are the primary guy on the court tasked with facilitating that identity?
This post was edited on 12/3/19 at 9:33 pm
Posted on 12/3/19 at 9:44 pm to Bronc
Correct, The wide open threes where we drive kick and make the extra pass are great.
The stand still and launch a 3 or the lets launch a 3 with 18 seconds left on the shot clock are an absolute joke. Lonzo cant shoot 10 3’s in a basketball game. How is that possible?
The stand still and launch a 3 or the lets launch a 3 with 18 seconds left on the shot clock are an absolute joke. Lonzo cant shoot 10 3’s in a basketball game. How is that possible?
Posted on 12/3/19 at 10:13 pm to JSRG123
I just looked at Lonzo Ball and my Austin Rivers rookie card and couldn't tell the difference.
Posted on 12/6/19 at 6:09 am to JSRG123
17-41 last night. I guess they have good shooters now??
I do love how you stand down on the point about 3s when Bronc makes a post that starts to take up what I said earlier in this thread
There are, for sure, ill-advised open 3s. There are also some great looks that just don't go down.
I'd love to see links to possessions in crunch time with bad threes and have a thread about that.
I do love how you stand down on the point about 3s when Bronc makes a post that starts to take up what I said earlier in this thread
quote:
If we want to point out individual possessions and shot selection, please do so. If we're talking about general trends for the offense, whining about 3s is incredibly dumb.
quote:
33 of their 38 3s per game are either OPEN or WIDE OPEN according to NBA.com stats. They hit those 3s at great rates. Those seem like good shots and good design.
There are, for sure, ill-advised open 3s. There are also some great looks that just don't go down.
I'd love to see links to possessions in crunch time with bad threes and have a thread about that.
Posted on 12/6/19 at 6:17 am to whatiknowsofar
Just because we say it too much don't mean it ain't true.
I was not very pleased that he was part of the trade, I was talked into giving him a shot by a couple of friends....I'm not convinced my original instincts were right. I have seen very little to be hopeful about for the future with him.
I was not very pleased that he was part of the trade, I was talked into giving him a shot by a couple of friends....I'm not convinced my original instincts were right. I have seen very little to be hopeful about for the future with him.
Posted on 12/6/19 at 6:20 am to corndeaux
quote:
So why do they stop doing the one thing Gentry preaches consistently in crunch time?
Maybe they like Gentry but don't really respect him enough to do what he asks, and maybe there are really not very many consequences when they don't so it continues.
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