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re: Steven Adams to Pelicans in Serious Talks
Posted on 11/21/20 at 3:08 am to The Pirate King
Posted on 11/21/20 at 3:08 am to The Pirate King
quote:
Just don’t like auctioning off part of our future for him.
That pick is a drop in the bucket with regards to our future draft pick assets. You gotta turn them into something eventually. Bringing Adams on board is a better move for the future. I reckon there is a vision for him past the guy’s basketball reference page. And competing for a playoff spot lends more to the development of this team than being a cellar dweller. Learn how to play tough defense, how to talk on defense, go after rebounds, culture, lockeroom etc. Stuff we had zero semblance of last year
This Pels team will be a different beast with healthy Zion. When it’s all said and done griff is going to have a solid 8-9 man rotation that will compete. Setting the culture starts now. Vets mixed with youth. And still have “war chest” of picks. And guess what? You will still have a few guys who can be sold off at the deadline
1
Posted on 11/21/20 at 3:09 am to whodat24
quote:
Bronc wants us to hoard picks like Presti and never use them. In 3 years when we trade for a star to contend I can guarantee he's gonna hate giving up those assets.
No dumb shite. I’ve said my feelings on the matter multiple times. Take some time off the internet and get a reading rainbow video or two in. You clearly need it.
I want us to use our picks on building a sustainable contender around Zion/Ingram, trade the picks, draft with them, flip em around. Problem I have is I don’t see Adams as either a stepping stone or a core piece to that end. Some of you might, that’s cool. If you do I’m open to hearing the argument.
This post was edited on 11/21/20 at 3:12 am
Posted on 11/21/20 at 3:11 am to Bronc
We have a lot of incomplete information right now in terms of the whole FA period and beyond. That holds weight. We can't crown Griff nor should we pitchfork his arse out of town because some of the parts seem illogical or bad value in a vaccuum. Not even half the moves have been made yet. Much excite. Much to discuss.
My position is that I'm optimistic, because reasons. Good reasons.
My position is that I'm optimistic, because reasons. Good reasons.
This post was edited on 11/21/20 at 3:17 am
Posted on 11/21/20 at 3:15 am to Bronc
10 different people have made solid points about the upside of this trade. Your argument boils down to "giving away one first rounder means Griff wants Adams for the next 6 years."
It's obvious that you are not open to the argument. Many posters have posted a solid analysis of what Adams adds to this team and how it benefits our future.
It's obvious that you are not open to the argument. Many posters have posted a solid analysis of what Adams adds to this team and how it benefits our future.
Posted on 11/21/20 at 3:16 am to DeionDeion
quote:
It’s not just a rental. It’s a locker room guy, a vet, a position of need, a skill that you greatly lack, it’s giving yourself a ton of cap flexibility to either use in a trade or to sign someone next offseason
We’ve been down this road before...I don’t think it’s out of line to question going down the “our star will attract other stars” mantra. The issue is the “stars” we’ve been able to sign have been:
Omer Asik
Trevor Ariza
Morris Peterson
Ryan Anderson
(Old) Rajon Rondo
Peja Stojakovic
(Old) Derrick Favors
JJ Redick
Solomon Hill
Julius Randle
Elfrid Payton
The above obviously weren’t enough to move the needle towards a championship.
Posted on 11/21/20 at 3:18 am to The Pirate King
I don't think Gyno was suggesting that we're going down that road.
Posted on 11/21/20 at 3:18 am to Bronc
The goal is to win as many games as possible. Stop bringing up Demps, let him go, this is totally different. The Pels have to try to build a culture. I think you are getting too caught up in assets. Those three picks don't win you games. We aren't the Thunder. Bro we have enough picks. The job is to now develop your talent. And I personally think Adams helps develop Zion and Hayes. I think Zion's offense will develop. He averaged 20+ and his offensive tool box was spare. His weakness was his rebounding and defense. We don't need more point scorers, we need defense. Adams fit that billing. Hayes gets to go up against and learn from a very good center. Say the fit isn't great, ok, you flip him at the deadline to a contender you you get back that late first round draft pick you love so much. Remember the Pels only have to be the 10th seed to have a chance of a playoff spot. Losing games does not make you better. It does not make Zion and Ingram better players. There is no incentive to lose games. The Thought is "How can we win this year without giving up our future" and the Pels did just that. What the Pels did with AD was say "Here the keys go win us games". With Zion they are trying to build something.
Posted on 11/21/20 at 3:20 am to Pelefraan 1
quote:
We have a lot of incomplete information right now in terms of the whole FA period and beyond. That holds weight. We can't crown Griff nor should we pitchfork his arse out of town because of what parts we do know.
And we don’t disagree here. Where the fracture comes in is the people that are acting like Griff will have stolen the show if what we know right now is in fact the core of the deal:
Adams for the Nuggets 1st, (2) 2nd’s and matching salaries.
To which I think that is kind of shite. As I think it would provide very little toward our ultimate goal of having a contender around Zion which will not realistically be happening for another 3-4 years. As I don’t particularly like the fit as a whole. It will certainly be fine defensively, but especially if we aren’t getting rid of Bledsoe the spacing will be atrocious, and Zion really needs spacing. As we already saw with Favors. It can be massaged to work in the regular season, but that is the sort of front court that will get exposed in the playoffs, and if the goal is a championship, I’d like to build a roster that is a bonafides contender
Posted on 11/21/20 at 3:23 am to The Pirate King
We are going to have at least a 5 year window with Zion and Ingram. 20 and 23 years old. You have two young stars already. The eventual 3rd star won’t get to chose to come here bc we either draft or trade for him
Posted on 11/21/20 at 3:24 am to Bronc
quote:
Seriously, read the whole f****** post.
I did. And I responded to the entirety of your post.
Yes Adams could be here long-term. But just bc we gave up those picks for him, doesn’t mean he has to stay. And if that’s the case, I still think he’s worth a year rental.
The picks we gave up for him, don’t have great value. Griff will continue this pattern of trading players for picks. So don’t worry, we will get more.
Whether Adams is on a Zion contender is irrelevant right now. Let them play together and see how it works.
And yes there are plenty vets around the league, but like what I stated in my other post, not all vets are created equal. Adams is a vocal leader, tough, skilled, etc, etc.
Posted on 11/21/20 at 3:25 am to Bronc
You're acting like we're mortgaging our future for this year, though. Realistically, all the spacing Zion needs is provided by Melli. Long-term hopefully Zion will learn something from Adams about defense and rebounding. Zion can score 20+ a game at elite efficiency already and I'm not too worried about floor spacing atm.
There are always floor spacers out there that we can get closer to the time we are contending. Adams is a move to build the culture now.
There are always floor spacers out there that we can get closer to the time we are contending. Adams is a move to build the culture now.
Posted on 11/21/20 at 3:31 am to whodat24
The arguments presented so far:
- Adams will provide some sort of magical vet leadership we can’t find on the open market. Not very compelling, and I don’t really buy it.
- Adams is great at PnR. Fair, but also played with two of the best ever in this era. But I think he is very good. Not worth the price though.
- improve our defense. Maybe. You know who was actually a statistically better rim protector before coming to Nola? Favors. So I’m not exactly convinced Adams is going to magically make our team better. It seems what is holding the team back defensively is Lonzo/Ingram/Zion. And if they improve, a guy like Adams or Favors, or Baynes, or Whiteside, or Robin Lopez , or any competent rim protector is going to be able to anchor things.
- Adams will provide some sort of magical vet leadership we can’t find on the open market. Not very compelling, and I don’t really buy it.
- Adams is great at PnR. Fair, but also played with two of the best ever in this era. But I think he is very good. Not worth the price though.
- improve our defense. Maybe. You know who was actually a statistically better rim protector before coming to Nola? Favors. So I’m not exactly convinced Adams is going to magically make our team better. It seems what is holding the team back defensively is Lonzo/Ingram/Zion. And if they improve, a guy like Adams or Favors, or Baynes, or Whiteside, or Robin Lopez , or any competent rim protector is going to be able to anchor things.
Posted on 11/21/20 at 3:33 am to whodat24
quote:melli and Zion was a sieve.
You're acting like we're mortgaging our future for this year, though. Realistically, all the spacing Zion needs is provided by Melli
It is not a viable lineup for more than small stretches and what Zion will ultimately need is a player that can stretch the floor, protect the rim, and rebound. Doing so for 20-25 minutes a game with him. Closing them out when necessary.
Posted on 11/21/20 at 3:33 am to The Pirate King
quote:
We’ve been down this road before...I don’t think it’s out of line to question going down the “our star will attract other stars” mantra. The issue is the “stars” we’ve been able to sign have been:
We are a small market team. We can’t attract the stars. The hope, is that you utilize this time to surround Zion & BI with vets (JJ, Steven Adams, George Hill if he stays) that will lead them & teach them. Then you use your assets to go get the stud you want to pair with BI & Zion. THEN hopefully you’ll get 1 or 2 guys that want to sign here.
That’s the general idea. All those other guys you mentioned were apart of a flawed system run by an inexperienced front office. And while this path could crash and burn too, it’s the one with the highest probability of success
Posted on 11/21/20 at 3:34 am to Bronc
The thing is that we gotta at least make the playoffs first. I understand you feel as if its a stupid move cause why give up assets for someone not in your plan. And im saying you just don't win over night. You think the Suns gonna win a championship in the next two years after trading for Chris Paul? Hell no. But you bring in a vet to teach your team how to win so they can go on and do it in the future. Putting a bunch of young players like Giles doesn't make the Pels better now or in the future. With Steven Adams you got a player who has a willingness to defend and he leaves it all on the floor. And if those are the only two things he teaches to the Pels young players, it was 100% worth it. This is a move that's bigger than just on the court. Not one Thunder fan has said they are happy to see Adams go. They loved everything he did for that team. And I am happy the Pels have him.
Posted on 11/21/20 at 3:36 am to Bronc
I totally agree with Bronc, Christian Wood would have been a way better acquisition.
Posted on 11/21/20 at 3:36 am to DeionDeion
quote:
And yes there are plenty vets around the league, but like what I stated in my other post, not all vets are created equal. Adams is a vocal leader, tough, skilled, etc, etc.
How many centers has Adams successfully developed so far?
Because I am hearing a lot of rationalizations that this trade would be some magical talent unlocking for Hayes/Zion/Ingram etc. And I’m just looking for what evidence you all have that has you so convinced of this that it is a primary justification for the proposed trade?
This post was edited on 11/21/20 at 3:37 am
Posted on 11/21/20 at 3:46 am to Bronc
quote:
How many centers has Adams successfully developed so far?
Sabonis
quote:
Because I am hearing a lot of rationalizations that this trade would be some magical talent unlocking for Hayes/Zion/Ingram etc.
It’s not magical. He’s simply a respected vet that players love being around. He’s a vocal guy. He’s been around KD & Westbrook & PG13 & CP3. He’s seen and experienced a lot. Thing is, there are only a handful of really great dudes/leaders that are also great competitors in the NBA. CP3, Horford, Rondo, Iggy, Smart, Draymond, Jimmy Butler, Steven Adams. You want those guys.
Look the trade for Adams could crash and burn. But this is a good bet to make.
This post was edited on 11/21/20 at 3:48 am
Posted on 11/21/20 at 3:47 am to Bronc
quote:
The arguments presented so far:
- Adams will provide some sort of magical vet leadership we can’t find on the open market. Not very compelling, and I don’t really buy it.
- Adams is great at PnR. Fair, but also played with two of the best ever in this era. But I think he is very good. Not worth the price though.
- improve our defense. Maybe. You know who was actually a statistically better rim protector before coming to Nola? Favors. So I’m not exactly convinced Adams is going to magically make our team better. It seems what is holding the team back defensively is Lonzo/Ingram/Zion. And if they improve, a guy like Adams or Favors, or Baynes, or Whiteside, or Robin Lopez , or any competent rim protector is going to be able to anchor things.
I actually think it's rather tremendous you're adopting a counter stance (stans?) to the everything is awesome gang. #NoMoreCircleJerks. Being challenged is good.
Just can be shite if ppl play the man instead of the ball.
This post was edited on 11/21/20 at 3:52 am
Posted on 11/21/20 at 3:53 am to Bronc
Well Favors was on a defensive team in Utah playing next to Rudy Gobert. Adams was apart of a top 10 defense that had Gallinari playing next to him. These are not the same. What was holding us back defensively was having 5 starters who had never played with each other before and then adding 4 rookies to the equation. There was not a better center we could've gotten in the open market. We weren't giving Favors 3 years. Robin Lopez was the Bucks 13th man of the bench, and got 9 mil from the Wizards... and you want that to be our starting center. Whiteside has been a head case his whole career. And something with Baynes must've came up. Maybe he was getting a multi year offer and the Pels wasn't willing to do that.
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