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Small sample size, but is this the lineup of the future?
Posted on 1/13/24 at 7:00 am
Posted on 1/13/24 at 7:00 am
quote:
Shamit Dua @FearTheBrown 6h
Only one Pels lineup that played more than 1 minute outside of garbage time went positive this game. Featured Zion and two shooters.
CJ, Dyson, Trey, Zion, Nance was +5 in 8:32 of game time.
Mind you, this was the same configuration that torched the Warriors, except it was Hawk in place of CJ.
We need to see more of these Zion and shooters lineups.
6
Posted on 1/13/24 at 7:06 am to TigerinATL
quote:
We need to see more of these Zion and shooters lineups.
Amazing that this is so blatantly obvious to every single human that even pays an ounce of attention to NBA basketball except the one guy who controls that decision.
Posted on 1/13/24 at 7:09 am to TigerinATL
I really don’t understand why this team won’t lean into this. It is so obvious that this is the future of the team if we want to be contenders. That doesn’t mean that guys like Herb or JV won’t have a role, but getting Zion with at least two shooters on the court has to be a focus moving forward for chunks of games. The big question is, where does this leave Ingram if he refuses to be a shooter?
Posted on 1/13/24 at 8:07 am to TigerinATL
quote:
We need to see more of these Zion and shooters lineups
No, it's not the lineup of the future. Dyson is a shooter now? Better than BI, Herb, and Hawk? It's the only plus lineup because Denver just played really well most of the night. It happens.
And this narrative is overblown now. We have good shooters now--almost all the time Zion is out there this season, he's with plenty of people who can knock down the 3
Posted on 1/13/24 at 8:17 am to kneenola
You do realize we aren’t talking about guys who have shot well for the last 10 games? We are are talking about guys who the defense has to respect as shooters. Herb is not a shooter because he creates no spacing. Naji, Jose, Dyson, JV, BI are all non shooters as far as a defense is concerned. Saying Zion should play with two or more shooters at a time isn’t an opinion. It is a fact. Look at the numbers over the last two seasons. It not only maximizes our shooters but it unlocks our BEST player. The fact that Zion and Trey sub in for each other and don’t play together more is inexcusable.
Posted on 1/13/24 at 8:32 am to ThePistol
quote:
The fact that Zion and Trey sub in for each other and don’t play together more is inexcusable.
If all you're saying is Zion and Trey should play together more, then I agree. The original post went way beyond that.
And Herb has been terrific with the open 3 all season, if he gets an open 3 because his man doubles Zion, I'll take that.
This post was edited on 1/13/24 at 8:34 am
Posted on 1/13/24 at 8:42 am to kneenola
quote:So you think Zion plus non shooters is the way to go?
No, it's not the lineup of the future
quote:This is objectively not true. We we not maximizing shooters around Zion nearly enough.
We have good shooters now--almost all the time Zion is out there this season
Posted on 1/13/24 at 8:47 am to shel311
quote:
We we not maximizing shooters around Zion nearly enough.
We can fricking have both.
Dyson
Hawkins
Zion
Trey
Nance
You're running backup units off the floor with that. That lineup gets the starters back in earlier.
We won't know the lineup of the future truly. Logic dictates two of trey/cj/hawk on the floor at all times. Willie is killing me on the inside with the shite he pulled last night.
Posted on 1/15/24 at 9:26 am to kneenola
quote:
No, it's not the lineup of the future. Dyson is a shooter now? Better than BI, Herb, and Hawk? It's the only plus lineup because Denver just played really well most of the night. It happens.
I wasn't even remotely suggesting Dyson was a shooter, I feel like you didn't even fully read my post. I suspect it's because BI wasn't listed which caused a knee jerk reaction. Dumping BI isn't really the angle I was going for. In fact, BI would benefit from similar 2 shooter lineups that I listed with Zion in them. BI has been saddled more than once with no shooters in some bench lineups and been asked to figure it out, and surprisingly he often did.
I made a post the other day talking about how our starting lineup doesn't work well because BI is the PG, meaning he's not acting as a spacer, meaning he is surrounded by 1 spacer and 3 non spacers. Here's a new article from Shamit driving home the point of how bad our 1 shooter lineups are.
LINK
Posted on 1/15/24 at 10:03 am to TigerinATL
This lineup is solid for regular season games. Not playable in the post-season, though.
Posted on 1/15/24 at 10:36 am to TigerinATL
frick it
CJ
Hawk
Trey
Ryan
Zion
CJ
Hawk
Trey
Ryan
Zion
Posted on 1/15/24 at 11:11 am to TigerinATL
Pelicans are deep this year. Deep lineup
Posted on 1/15/24 at 11:22 am to ThePistol
quote:
Herb is not a shooter because he creates no spacing.
Herb is now shooting 38% from 3 on 125 shots
He is finishing at the rim (0-5') at 65%, on 128 shots. If you run him off the line, you're going to pay for it.
Herb has taken only 38 shots from 6' to inside the 3P line. He's 9-38 (24%) from that terrible shot location, but good thing only 13% of his shots are bad shots, which is why he has a really efficient 60.2 TS%
The fact of the matter is it doesn't matter who's on the court, teams will always have to stop Zion and BI from getting in the paint. It doesn't matter if it's Trey or CJ or Herb or Dyson in the corner, his man is going to leave him open if he has to stop Zion or BI from getting to the rim. That's what happened in the Clippers game. They basically said Zion and BI aren't goign to beat us.
That's easier said than done, but there are two teams that can say that, and actually be successful with it b/c of their lineup, and that's the Clippers and Nuggets. Kawhi/PG/Zubac is a tough defense, as is Gordon/MPJ/Jokic.
Posted on 1/15/24 at 11:26 am to TigerinATL
from that article, i think this should be mentioned:
Simply put, we are playing really good basketball overall.
quote:
There is one super fascinating wrench in the data, and that is the NO SHOOTER lineups. These lineups of course are the ones without any of CJ, Trey, Hawk, and Matt on the court. In 459 no shooter possessions (also minus Liddell, Gates, Seabron, and JRE to remove garbage time), the Pelicans are a +18.28. The bulk of these possessions, however, feature all three of the Zion, BI, and JV trio, and almost all of them feature at least two of the three.
The Pelicans had a ton of success running the Dyson, Herb, BI, Zion, JV starting lineup and that success is carrying a lot of this data. However, the no-shooter configurations are shooting 39% from three, with even the above starting 5 clocking in at 40% from deep. The combination of unsustainable shooting, defense generated transition play, and offensive rebounds, the Pelicans found a way to make no shooter groups work.
Simply put, we are playing really good basketball overall.
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